What is a fair suspension ?

[Billysboots]

That’s real life!!
This is just golf???

Indeed. But there are far more politics in play here than in the Brexit shenanigans! Private members clubs can be a hoot at times, can’t they?

 

[Deleted member 25172]

Will Brexit be done and dusted by then, do you think? And what about this pesky virus?

Brexit will be done, but most certainly not dusted by any means. By this time, I envision daily calls from The Guardian for the queen to abdicate her throne and to be replaced by Angela Merkel, whilst at the same time an online petition to introduce WOKE as state religion is growing exponentially.

The virus will still be around, but as it's mainly elderly people that die from it, it doesn't really matter as they voted Brexit. The departure of the old will only pave way to a new and more liberal, inclusive and less hateful society - you bigot.

But I might be wrong.

 

[3offTheTee]

Not sure i can agree i have been a loyal member of 4 years never any trouble. I just don't like secrecy or bullies and feel I should stand up to them. it is a members club not the Presidents. Have currently spent over £2000 on this and likely £2k more to get to court . I see this as a principled stance on a honest question. I don't see myself as a trouble maker but also i am not going to role over and see the club managed in this way.

Must admit I admire your tenacity on a point of principle. £200 is a lot to spend plus potentially another £2k for starters. Personally I would have probably accepted the situation but we are all different and admire you but I could not contemplate such action.

You mention that the 3 month ban will be on 1st October so with the 3 month ban the incident possibly happened in June. Why has it taken so long for you to post on here please? In 2 weeks‘ time what are your plans re playing in Comps. Social golf, bar etc?

On a lighter note have you considered asking a few from GM Forum to join you or perhaps offer a meet in “ Arrange a Game “ thread. Sure there would be plenty of interest!

 

[patricks148]

If it’s a private members club, I can easily see the OP not being asked to renew his membership at the next renewal time.
As for the whys and wherefores , I reserve judgement suffice to say that as a member of a private members club I wouldn’t be too pleased with another member posting about my club on a public forum and taking legal action over something some may perceive as trivial in the grand scheme of things.

This...

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Next years subs frozen at the current rate.

 

[Robster59]

Whenever I see a discussion like this where you only hear one side, I always think of this advert.

 

[sunshine]

I'm just imagining a member of my own club winning a court case (of this nature) against the club, and it costing the club many £000s of pounds. No matter the rights or the wrongs of the issue, I have a feeling that some or many members might not be that favourably disposed towards that member (or the board). That is unfortunate but it is not unlikely.

A member sued my club after she fell over and broke her wrist. It was in january when the course was frozen, obviously she knew the risks, but the club was advised to settle out of court as it had a duty of care to golfers. This was several years ago and she is still a member.

So maybe our freedom fighter can safely reintegrate himself into the club once he has won or lost his crusade. Vive la revolution!

 

[LincolnShep]

Re committee members they tend to split into three equal types.
Those who have a genuine desire to improve the club.
Those on a one agenda ticket or ego/social trip
Those who see it as a way of making money.

How would one make money by being on a GC committee? Asking for a friend.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

A member sued my club after she fell over and broke her wrist. It was in january when the course was frozen, obviously she knew the risks, but the club was advised to settle out of court as it had a duty of care to golfers. This was several years ago and she is still a member.

So maybe our freedom fighter can safely reintegrate himself into the club once he has won or lost his crusade. Vive la revolution!

Out of interest - are you a Proprietary Club or a Members Club.

Win a case against a members club and it costs the members - indirectly if not directly - but possibly directly if funds are required to fill the gap created.

 

[clubchamp98]

Indeed. But there are far more politics in play here than in the Brexit shenanigans! Private members clubs can be a hoot at times, can’t they?

I was on the greens comittiee at my last club.
People won’t leave you alone.
Would never do it again.
Never understood why a politician works for £70k when he can earn double that or more outside Parliament.
Must be the kudos and power.

 

[Mandofred]

Back on track. There will be no winners in the case that has been mentioned

To me.....this isn't the point. It's what is right.

 

[KenL]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Nothing and I wouldn't expect anything.
Clubs need support to keep going as not many have much in the bank.

 

[clubchamp98]

Assuming the advice was privileged and the club wanted to maintain that, they absolutely could not show it to him.

Yes I do see that point.
But if that’s the case why use the letter as justification in an answer to a quite legitimate question from a member.?
It’s a bit silly getting into a slanging match , Both sides need a long look in the mirror imo.
Only the Laywers will win in this one.

 

[sunshine]

Out of interest - are you a Proprietary Club or a Members Club.

Win a case against a members club and it costs the members - indirectly if not directly - but possibly directly if funds are required to fill the gap created.

Members club.
Don't think I would have the temerity to sue my club and remain a member.

Unsurprisingly, We now have a very conservative frost policy and lots of safety signs all over the place!

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

See one of the OP's posts below, should explain it.

Thanks.
These are strange times that we are living in and most, if not all golf clubs have had to make difficult decisions based on their own individual circumstances. At the OP's club, at least one of the members was not happy with the committee's decision and pushed for further information. His own financial situation may well have been the driving force in this. Rightly or wrongly, two officials agreed to try and appease the OP with a face to face virtual meeting but seem to have dug themselves into a hole with their answers that the OP felt he had to follow up with an email rant that he now probably regrets.
No one is going to win in this situation, especially if legal action is being taken (except for the solicitors).
If the OP can see his way to apologising personally to the president and explain how frustrated he was after the virtual meeting, it may well help in any appeal. You never know, the president may even speak up for him.
Moral for the club is, don't let one or two officials try to deal with a problem that needs the full committee's attention.

 

[Green Bay Hacker]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

We offered 3 options (from memory)
1. Let the club keep the 2 months subs from when the club was closed.
2. Member can get the 2 months subs paid into their bar accounts.
3. Member can get some of the 2 months subs paid into their account and let the club keep the balance.

I believe that over 75% of the subs were donated to the club by the members.

 

[Robster59]

Nothing quite so fun alas... Was told that the club had a legal letter saying fees must be paid during lock down, I asked as a member to see the letter was told it was private and it was not being shown to members.. Ended up in a private email to the President with me suggesting that he hadn't told the truth and was now hiding (a little more colorful to be fair).

A question on this. Where you objecting to the principle of paying the money during lockdown or the fact that you didn't like the reason? If the former, well there a big thread one this in the forum somewhere so I won't up that debate but if the latter it seems a strange way for the club to get members to pay. Our club has been very open throughout it and most members stayed and paid as the course still needed to be maintained.

 

[williamalex1]

What an interesting thread. I think that each club has their own rules about how to deal with disciplinary procedures, they have their own constitutions and management structure as to who makes the decisions but here's my thoughts, for what they're worth.

• If it is a members club, and the club say they have taken legal advice about paying the membership, and use that for coercing/forcing/demanding the members pay their membership, then I would say the members have the right to have that advice shared with them.
• The OP hasn't really done themselves any favours by getting personal/abusive and calling the integrity of the President into question. And in writing. That's an example of where my old boss would write an email, save it, and then come back the next day to see if he still wanted to send it. Often he didn't.
• The President sounds like he is being thin-skinned. When I was Vice Captain, a member wanted to see us about a dispute he had. I explained part of the situation to him and he pretty much called me a liar. I let it by as I knew he was annoyed he wasn't getting his way (he was in the wrong btw) and was trying to get a rise out of me. I certainly wouldn't have banned him for three months.
• By the sound of it the club haven't handled it well in what they have done either. Call you in and show you the document, or give you the chance to apologies, or just talk it over.
• We have had to call people in for infringements, some of which I would say have been worse than the OP but in most instances the individual has know what they have done has been wrong and it was left at that. In one instance there could almost certainly have been a ban but he showed contrition so it was simply a warning.
• At the end of the day, if you have an issue, there are ways to handle it. Making inflammatory and unfounded allegations then you really have to expect a reaction. Maybe that's what you were after but just didn't expect the reaction you got.

Years ago I had a disagreement with my club/council over an extant rule, but just before my hearing/meeting , a friend whispered in my ear, " don't go in guns blazing, be calm and state your case ". It work out in my favour.
But golf clubs /councils can basically do what they want.

 

[backwoodsman]

I am interested in what can be gained from the legal action. If the club is incorporated then it is a separate legal entity from the members and so any legal advice obtained is privileged and you have no entitlement to see the same. If the club is unincorporated, it is not a legal entity and so you can only only take action against the individual members. If you have commenced legal action against the club as you state then the club has to be a legal entity separate from the members and you have no entitlement to see privileged advice obtained by that entity.

With regards the payments lockdown, a simple small claims matter.

Interesting post. I am not of the legal persuasion, but was thinking exactly the same thing.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

How would one make money by being on a GC committee? Asking for a friend.

By promoting their business to a large group of like minded well to do people.
Financial adviser, builder/trades, car/home/ insurance sales etc. etc etc.
Lots of business done on the golf course I am told.