What is a fair suspension ?

[Mandofred]

I must say, although I understand the OP has a valid point of principle here in relation to how the club has been run (based on his version), I don't really see why it's worth spending £000s on.

Having soaked all the information in, there are a few things that don't really make sense:

1. If a few hundred quid during lockdown are so important to the OP, why then are the £000s litigation will cost worth it?

Because sometimes money isn't the most important thing to a person. Money isn't everything.

In this case, it is kind of sounding like both sides were a little bit out of line.....so I don't know if I would fight it if I thought I had at least partial responsibility for the negative results. One thing I've learned over the years, when something unpleasant happens to me.....I've usually been able to have done something different that would have helped.

 

[rksquire]

Wow, a lot to digest there!

re: your colourful email, as long as you didn't break any laws with your language, I imagine a small sanction would have been justified regardless of whether you felt the situation required such a response. Foul & abusive language personally directed at an individual is not acceptable.

I assume the Club sought legal advice about lockdown fees as that had been a topic of discussion amongst members? If so, and the club are relying on that advice, they certainly should have been able to share that, or part of that, with members or at least summarise the relevant part and cross reference with the Clubs constitution / rules / agreements to convey their point. It was stated it was 'bona fide' so why the difficulty in explaining to members.

Support was given to Clubs (and every business during lockdown), and peoples individual circumstances changed dramatically - being able to pay for something you no longer were able to benefit from because you love the club and want it to survive is different to someone who could no longer afford it. I imagine there is a principle here regardless of the £000s of legal fees versus 3 months membership.

In reality, failure to share relevant information or fully explain decisions is not something, in my experience, elected representatives want to do. Which is a shame. It seems alot of this could have been avoided!

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Because sometimes money isn't the most important thing to a person. Money isn't everything.

In this case, it is kind of sounding like both sides were a little bit out of line.....so I don't know if I would fight it if I thought I had at least partial responsibility for the negative results. One thing I've learned over the years, when something unpleasant happens to me.....I've usually been able to have done something different that would have helped.

I understand that, but I don't understand what the major point of principle is that's worth £000s.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm just imagining a member of my own club winning a court case (of this nature) against the club, and it costing the club many £000s of pounds. No matter the rights or the wrongs of the issue, I have a feeling that some or many members might not be that favourably disposed towards that member (or the board). That is unfortunate but it is not unlikely.

 

[Swango1980]

I understand that, but I don't understand what the major point of principle is that's worth £000s.

Two possible answers:

1. The OP is very wealthy, and 000's for him would be a drop in the ocean
2. The OP is very passionate on the topic, and has either allow it to snowball to this point, or is simply not bothered by a huge financial loss to make his point.

 

[Bdill93]

I had yesterday off the foum - what a catch up this has been!

 

[NedPizza]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Two possible answers:

1. The OP is very wealthy, and 000's for him would be a drop in the ocean
2. The OP is very passionate on the topic, and has either allow it to snowball to this point, or is simply not bothered by a huge financial loss to make his point.

If it's 1, it's also 2, given the starting point is whether fees were still due during lockdown, which to a wealthy person not bothered about spending 000s on litigation would also be trivial.

If it's 2, then my point still stands that I don't understand the big point of principal at play that makes it worth it.

Clearly, to me at least, it's something fairly minor that has escalated on both sides, and the OP is continuing that escalation come hell or high water regardless of whether the end point (a court case costing both sides a lot of cash) is worth it. It's human pride in action, and I get it, because I'm someone that holds equitable treatment in very high regard, but there has to be a sensible limit on that. Particularly as surely there are other ways to influence the way the golf club is run than this.

 

[Bdill93]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Membership frozen just like my gym was! Courses re-opened, membership started up again. Standard Covid protocols followed throughout the actual course to ensure safe play. The best approach in my opinion.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Nothing from mine for that year (to 30/6/20). But 2 months gratis for this year. (1/7/20 to 30/6/21). No problem with that at all.

 

[robinthehood]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

No nothing, and then prioritised pay and play members.
Have heard similar at other clubs too

 

[azazel]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Our club didn't offer anything that I'm aware of and that's fine by me. We pay our subs "in advance" rather than monthly so there wasn't anything straightforward they could realistically have offered. Plus - and I know some people will see this differently - I don't view my golf membership in the same way as my gym membership. Our club is a private members club, which therefore makes it "my" club, and if my club needs my money to survive then they can have it. There's obviously a limit to what the amount is, and not everyone is in the same financial boat, but if not giving me my money back or offering any kind of discount is what's needed to keep the club going for me, my family and my mates then I'm right behind it.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Clearly, to me at least, it's something fairly minor that has escalated on both sides, and the OP is continuing that escalation come hell or high water regardless of whether the end point (a court case costing both sides a lot of cash) is worth it. It's human pride in action, and I get it, because I'm someone that holds equitable treatment in very high regard, but there has to be a sensible limit on that. Particularly as surely there are other ways to influence the way the golf club is run than this.

Very true, I have seen this many times in my 45 years working at golf clubs and with committees. No one wins and the complainant is generally sent to Coventry.
Countless times I have advised members to make an application to join the committee if they do not like the way the club is being run.
95% reply.
I haven't got the time/ can't be bothered/ what difference would I make.

Re committee members they tend to split into three equal types.
Those who have a genuine desire to improve the club.
Those on a one agenda ticket or ego/social trip
Those who see it as a way of making money.

 

[Rlburnside]

Why are so many people on here blowing smoke up the backside of the "president". They're just a person at a golf club not someone to be in awe of in any shape or form.

Can't wait to come in from work tonight to pick up on the latest twists and drama's of GM SuspensionGate!!!!

Why wait do what someone else does says how busy he is at work then is on the forum all day ??

 

[Swango1980]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

We have different grades of membership, but most are on £180 per year, then they pay green fees per round.

I'm a member that pays the full annual fee of nearly £700 per year.

No discounts in fees after. But, that is fine to me. Club still had to maintain the course over lockdown, and were also losing out on budget members not paying those green fees per round, or fees from visitors.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Our club didn't offer anything that I'm aware of and that's fine by me. We pay our subs "in advance" rather than monthly so there wasn't anything straightforward they could realistically have offered. Plus - and I know some people will see this differently - I don't view my golf membership in the same way as my gym membership. Our club is a private members club, which therefore makes it "my" club, and if my club needs my money to survive then they can have it. There's obviously a limit to what the amount is, and not everyone is in the same financial boat, but if not giving me my money back or offering any kind of discount is what's needed to keep the club going for me, my family and my mates then I'm right behind it.

For those of us who renewed end March my club is given a reduction in fees for next two years. The amount of reduction is a pro rata calculation based upon golf time lost due to closure split over two years. So if we were shut 3months then 1/4 of £1600 = £200 reduction for each of next two renewals.

If I don't renew next year then I don't think I get anything from the club in lieu of that reduction; I wouldn't expect to get anything. - and so I wouldn't be asking.

 

[clubchamp98]

Member gets into heated argument with President of club. Member gets suspended by club (regardless if the Committee are mates, they are probably voted into that Committee by members and ultimately feel the member over stepped the mark, and are not bothered if they never rejoin again). Member takes club to court. Member goes online to give his version of events, initially naming club, potentially harming their reputation.

Now, perhaps members at this club are about to revolt against a terrible Committee and nasty President. However, I have my suspicions that this is a particular member that most clubs would rather was not at their club.

So, I think it is harsh for anyone to assume the President is some sort of Dictator (not all Presidents are like Trump)

But, I agree, I'm loving the drama

To be honest.
All the pres had to do is shut him up by showing him the letter.
But he got him suspended and are imo trying to force him out.

 

[Billysboots]

I've got a feeling that this thread is gonna become a real forum classic.

Looking forward to read post 16,574 sometime around christmas 2023.

Will Brexit be done and dusted by then, do you think? And what about this pesky virus?

 

[clubchamp98]

I don't belong to a golf club, but it would be interesting to hear from others on here who are members, as to what their club offered during lock down if anything.

As an example some gyms offered their members a few extra months free, mine offered nothing. However I like my gym so I accepted their decision.

Nothing yet.
But we pay January so maybe .
But not expecting anything.
But would hope I would not get myself into a situation like this.
One is wrong and that dosnt make the other one right.
Sounds like a right mess imo.

 

[clubchamp98]

Will Brexit be done and dusted by then, do you think? And what about this pesky virus?

That’s real life!!
This is just golf???