What’s your favourite layup distance?

[robinthehood]

in the words of Hank Haney

Laying up to a favorite distance is a myth that has probably come from selectively watching professional golf on television. You might see a tour player lay up on a par 5 to a preferred wedge distance, but 99 percent of the time if the pros have the opportunity to get near the green safely, they'll bomb it down there. Plus, stats don't lie. At every distance the PGA Tour measures, players hit it closer to the hole on average when they're closer to the target. I don't care how much you love having 7-iron into the green: Over the long term, you're going to shoot better scores if you try to cover as much distance as possible. It's always better to have a wedge in your hand than a longer iron. The only exceptions? When the longer shot puts you at risk of going into a hazard or deep grass, or leaves you with an awkward sidehill or downhill lie

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

in the words of Hank Haney

Laying up to a favorite distance is a myth that has probably come from selectively watching professional golf on television. You might see a tour player lay up on a par 5 to a preferred wedge distance, but 99 percent of the time if the pros have the opportunity to get near the green safely, they'll bomb it down there. Plus, stats don't lie. At every distance the PGA Tour measures, players hit it closer to the hole on average when they're closer to the target. I don't care how much you love having 7-iron into the green: Over the long term, you're going to shoot better scores if you try to cover as much distance as possible. It's always better to have a wedge in your hand than a longer iron. The only exceptions? When the longer shot puts you at risk of going into a hazard or deep grass, or leaves you with an awkward sidehill or downhill lie

This is fine for anyone with a half decent short game but the serial chunker/knifer will probably hit more greens from 100 yards than from 50 yards.

 

[JohnnyDee]

This is fine for anyone with a half decent short game but the serial chunker/knifer will probably hit more greens from 100 yards than from 50 yards.

Hey, what happens at Hayling should stay at Hayling...

 

[robinthehood]

This is fine for anyone with a half decent short game but the serial chunker/knifer will probably hit more greens from 100 yards than from 50 yards.

sorry but if someone is that bad from 50 yds then I'd be suprised if they are a whole let better from 100

 

[Grant85]

in the words of Hank Haney

Laying up to a favorite distance is a myth that has probably come from selectively watching professional golf on television. You might see a tour player lay up on a par 5 to a preferred wedge distance, but 99 percent of the time if the pros have the opportunity to get near the green safely, they'll bomb it down there. Plus, stats don't lie. At every distance the PGA Tour measures, players hit it closer to the hole on average when they're closer to the target. I don't care how much you love having 7-iron into the green: Over the long term, you're going to shoot better scores if you try to cover as much distance as possible. It's always better to have a wedge in your hand than a longer iron. The only exceptions? When the longer shot puts you at risk of going into a hazard or deep grass, or leaves you with an awkward sidehill or downhill lie

I think this is fair enough and I've read the Mark Broadie book that confirm this.

However remember that refers to elite golfers who are going to keep a 3 iron / hybrid shot on or near target most of the time.

For a handicap golfer the capacity to mess up a 200 yard club is much greater than messing up a 150 yard shot.

I'd reckon for a 15 to 20 handicapper, hitting a 7 iron as the second shot on every par 5 (or after every duffed tee shot on a par 4 where you have 200+ yards) would likely lead to a better scoring average than hitting a wood or 3 hybrid. Obviously assuming that distance doesn't put you into a bunker or water hazard and that there is a reasonable amount of trouble around the green - which most holes tend to have.

Plus there is a really good feeling of satisfaction to hitting a decent mid-iron followed by a decent wedge onto the green rather than feeling like you are under pressure and have to button a hybrid to reach the green. My point would be that the chances of hitting target with a 200 yard shot are slim that you will probably be chipping or pitching anyway... so better off taking a bit of risk out of play.

I know guys at that level are just as capable of missing a 7 iron, but I'd say the number of things to go wrong are much less and most people will hit a much more consistent 7 iron than they would a wood off the deck.

Edit to add - this was just a generaisation and that on average I'd say it will lead to a better scoring average. But this doesn't account for making a strategic decision if the lay-up distance is particularly tight and there is loads of room around the green to miss, and not put you in major troublr.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

sorry but if someone is that bad from 50 yds then I'd be suprised if they are a whole let better from 100

I'm pretty good from 100 yards

 

[Wolf]

sorry but if someone is that bad from 50 yds then I'd be suprised if they are a whole let better from 100

You clearly haven't seen my dad or anyone that has the pitching/chipping yips.

I agree the closer the better for most players. But those that have real issues at shorter shits sometimes a 100yards or a *** that leaves them a full swing is the lesser of 2 evils.

Plus say someone off mid 20s gets 2 shots on index 1 par 4 hole, where is the benefit in them going for the green in 2 if they're hitting a 220yard 2nd shot. They're off that handicap for a reason and you can sure as hell bet part of that reason is they're not consistent at that distance to get anywhere near. Better for them to hit say 2 PW 110yards and be on in 3, take 2 putts and they've got nett birdie. They try and sail a fairway wood down there it could get topped, sliced or chunked 10yards. Means the same dilemma again.. Better for that player or the one with the shirt game issues to take the first option.

It's not about stats or being right or wrong, it's merely using correction course management for the individual playing the shot.

 

[Wolf]

I think this is fair enough and I've read the Mark Broadie book that confirm this.

However remember that refers to elite golfers who are going to keep a 3 iron / hybrid shot on or near target most of the time.

For a handicap golfer the capacity to mess up a 200 yard club is much greater than messing up a 150 yard shot.

I'd reckon for a 15 to 20 handicapper, hitting a 7 iron as the second shot on every par 5 (or after every duffed tee shot on a par 4 where you have 200+ yards) would likely lead to a better scoring average than hitting a wood or 3 hybrid. Obviously assuming that distance doesn't put you into a bunker or water hazard and that there is a reasonable amount of trouble around the green - which most holes tend to have.

Plus there is a really good feeling of satisfaction to hitting a decent mid-iron followed by a decent wedge onto the green rather than feeling like you are under pressure and have to button a hybrid to reach the green. My point would be that the chances of hitting target with a 200 yard shot are slim that you will probably be chipping or pitching anyway... so better off taking a bit of risk out of play.

I know guys at that level are just as capable of missing a 7 iron, but I'd say the number of things to go wrong are much less and most people will hit a much more consistent 7 iron than they would a wood off the deck.

Edit to add - this was just a generaisation and that on average I'd say it will lead to a better scoring average. But this doesn't account for making a strategic decision if the lay-up distance is particularly tight and there is loads of room around the green to miss, and not put you in major troublr.

Exactly my point with an earlier post I do this myself on a couple of our par 5s. I know with a driver off the tee I can get there in 2, but that also means making sure I care the OOB with my drive and then have added issue if I leave my approach out to the right with my 3 wood/hybrid approach that's also OOB. So I dial it back from the tee and plot my way down to get between 80-110yards for my 3rd. I'd rather be putting for 4 and guarantee a 5, than flirt with the danger danger in hope I may make 3 but could as likely make 7 or 8.

 

[robinthehood]

Exactly my point with an earlier post I do this myself on a couple of our par 5s. I know with a driver off the tee I can get there in 2, but that also means making sure I care the OOB with my drive and then have added issue if I leave my approach out to the right with my 3 wood/hybrid approach that's also OOB. So I dial it back from the tee and plot my way down to get between 80-110yards for my 3rd. I'd rather be putting for 4 and guarantee a 5, than flirt with the danger danger in hope I may make 3 but could as likely make 7 or 8.

Thats called course management

I usually hit Driver and 7/8/9i on our 530 yd 14th as going for it 2 is very risky with water left, bushes long and OOB right. Smart play is lay up to around the 110 mark short of all the trouble.

 

[Orikoru]

sorry but if someone is that bad from 50 yds then I'd be suprised if they are a whole let better from 100

I think you'd also be surprised how many higher handicap players are much happier using a full swing than using a half swing or knock-down shot which they may struggle with for timing and contact.

 

[Grant85]

Thats called course management

I usually hit Driver and 7/8/9i on our 530 yd 14th as going for it 2 is very risky with water left, bushes long and OOB right. Smart play is lay up to around the 110 mark short of all the trouble.

What gets me is the number of amateurs who will always hit the longest club in the bag when they are 200+ yards away. They never even consider for a minute that 250 yards is comfortable 7 iron / gap wedge.

 

[Wolf]

Thats called course management

I usually hit Driver and 7/8/9i on our 530 yd 14th as going for it 2 is very risky with water left, bushes long and OOB right. Smart play is lay up to around the 110 mark short of all the trouble.

As is the same thing for a player lays up to a preferred distance, they're managing their game round the course as they may have some serious short game issues.

Your 14th doesn't sound to dissimilar to our 7th. But I agree I believe so many people especially higher handicaps give away shots because the always reach for the club they think will go the distance to the green, they never think of breaking it down to say 8iron and wedge. Instead they reach for 3 wood and spank it in the garbage meaning a higher score.

 

[Orikoru]

What gets me is the number of amateurs who will always hit the longest club in the bag when they are 200+ yards away. They never even consider for a minute that 250 yards is comfortable 7 iron / gap wedge.

Weirdly I agree and disagree with this. I struggle with consistency on long irons / hybrids. So if I have 200 yards to go, yes the safer play is to hit a 7 iron and then a wedge. But on the flipside, if I'm just doing that every time I might as well just chuck my hybrids in the bin and just carry 12 clubs around since I'd never be using them??

Perhaps the answer is go for it on practise rounds, but take the safe option in comps, until you've got to the point where the 200 yard shot is more consistent?

 

[Wolf]

Weirdly I agree and disagree with this. I struggle with consistency on long irons / hybrids. So if I have 200 yards to go, yes the safer play is to hit a 7 iron and then a wedge. But on the flipside, if I'm just doing that every time I might as well just chuck my hybrids in the bin and just carry 12 clubs around since I'd never be using them??

Perhaps the answer is go for it on practise rounds, but take the safe option in comps, until you've got to the point where the 200 yard shot is more consistent?[/QUOTE]

Is the correct answer all day long. In pratice work on your weaknesses and then in comp play to your strengths..

Once you iron out the weakness slowly introduce into comp play when confident, if the first time you do it you cock it up then You then always have the fall back option for the rest of the round you can use.

 

[garyinderry]

Weirdly I agree and disagree with this. I struggle with consistency on long irons / hybrids. So if I have 200 yards to go, yes the safer play is to hit a 7 iron and then a wedge. But on the flipside, if I'm just doing that every time I might as well just chuck my hybrids in the bin and just carry 12 clubs around since I'd never be using them??

Perhaps the answer is go for it on practise rounds, but take the safe option in comps, until you've got to the point where the 200 yard shot is more consistent?

The answer is to be able to recognise when it is safe to have a pop with the longer club or try to identify a bail out where the miss isn't too penal.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

My issue is that I still don't know what my 70 yard shot even is, so that is a horror distance for me. Just provokes indecision. I don't have access to a proper practise area so the only time I can practise it is the odd occasion it comes up in rounds. That's the reason why I wouldn't want to leave that particular distance, as an example. Whereas 100 yards I know is a full 50° so I have more confidence there. I'd be very confident that I'm more accurate from 100 than from 70, because from 70 there's a good chance that I hit my 56° 20 yards short or 15 yards long by mistake, whereas hitting full shots from 100, as long as I hit them decently, they're going to go between 95 and 105, say.

Interesting reply, can understand that.

Used to have similar issues before sat nav/laser golf devices, as had to guess the distance and the length of swing or club to take, so just pot luck and used to fly greens or be way short etc.

I got a measuring device and spent a bit of time on the course seeing how far the 'clock' setup with my Sand wedge goes, so for me to 9 oclock(waist) its 50 yards carry, and every extra hour is 10 yards carry more, upto the full swing of 85 yards and similar going downwards. I accelerate at the same pace as a full swing, so do not mess with speed or down the grip or different clubs for those distances or swings(unless there is particular reasons, like masses of wind). Basically one swing for all distances upto 85 yards, just length of backswing changed, nice and simple in my eyes.

I was surprised at how consistent the clock basis is. and reckon it must save me 3 shots a round having one club for all shorter distances, not guessing distance and nowdays tend not to miss the green from the shorter distances, think I actually posted about it on the forum at the time, as I was so surprised but I can still easily miss from 80-100 onwards (doh!), anyone got an answer for that without a full rebuild of my wonky swing

Well worth doing if you have the time, the measuring device and wish to. Cheers

 

[Orikoru]

Interesting reply, can understand that.

Used to have similar issues before sat nav/laser golf devices, as had to guess the distance and the length of swing or club to take, so just pot luck and used to fly greens or be way short etc.

I got a measuring device and spent a bit of time on the course seeing how far the 'clock' setup with my Sand wedge goes, so for me to 9 oclock(waist) its 50 yards carry, and every extra hour is 10 yards carry more, upto the full swing of 85 yards and similar going downwards. I accelerate at the same pace as a full swing, so do not mess with speed or down the grip or different clubs for those distances or swings(unless there is particular reasons, like masses of wind). Basically one swing for all distances upto 85 yards, just length of backswing changed, nice and simple in my eyes.

I was surprised at how consistent the clock basis is. and reckon it must save me 3 shots a round having one club for all shorter distances, not guessing distance and nowdays tend not to miss the green from the shorter distances, think I actually posted about it on the forum at the time, as I was so surprised but I can still can easily miss from 80-100 onwards (doh!), anyone got an answer for that within a full rebuild of my wonky swing

Well worth doing if you have the time, the measuring device and wish to. Cheers

I use a GPS for yardage, have done for ages. I think my problem is I'd find it impossible to measure increments of swing as precisely as you describe. I've got two settings, full swing or half swing. Wouldn't have a clue about adjusting by an hour on an imaginary clockface.

 

[garyinderry]

I use a GPS for yardage, have done for ages. I think my problem is I'd find it impossible to measure increments of swing as precisely as you describe. I've got two settings, full swing or half swing. Wouldn't have a clue about adjusting by an hour on an imaginary clockface.

Why not try my method of using 3 different tempo or speeds for each club.

I basically use

A lazy swing which mimics that of a lazy practice swing.
Speed two which is lazy plus a little speed.
Full which is the fastest I can comfortably swing the club without losing balance or forcing the swing .

Stance is feet relatively close together. Zero leg drive. Feels an all arms swing. About 3/4 back and similar through to a nice finish.

Taking my approach shots to a new level.

I spent two evenings trying these out with 8 iron to 60 wedge and got comfortable playing things like lazy swing 56 = 30 yards. Crazy how repeatable it is.

I now laser everything within pitching distance these days and feel prepared rather than playing a guessing game.

 

[Orikoru]

Why not try my method of using 3 different tempo or speeds for each club.

I basically use

A lazy swing which mimics that of a lazy practice swing.
Speed two which is lazy plus a little speed.
Full which is the fastest I can comfortably swing the club without losing balance or forcing the swing .

Stance is feet relatively close together. Zero leg drive. Feels an all arms swing. About 3/4 back and similar through to a nice finish.

Taking my approach shots to a new level.

I spent two evenings trying these out with 8 iron to 60 wedge and got comfortable playing things like lazy swing 56 = 30 yards. Crazy how repeatable it is.

I now laser everything within pitching distance these days and feel prepared rather than playing a guessing game.

I'm willing to try something like that on my next practise round of course, but 'lazy swing' sounds like asking for a duff to me. I'm hoping to get down on Friday night and try a few things.

 

[Grant85]

Weirdly I agree and disagree with this. I struggle with consistency on long irons / hybrids. So if I have 200 yards to go, yes the safer play is to hit a 7 iron and then a wedge. But on the flipside, if I'm just doing that every time I might as well just chuck my hybrids in the bin and just carry 12 clubs around since I'd never be using them??

Perhaps the answer is go for it on practise rounds, but take the safe option in comps, until you've got to the point where the 200 yard shot is more consistent?

Horses for courses.

There may be some holes when you play a hybrid off the tee. Or there is risk attached to the lay-up and so you might as well go for it. Or matchplay situation where you might as well take the shot on.

Obviously it's a no brainer that getting better at a certain shot gives you more options and should give you the ability to score better. But the whole strategy thing should allow you to score better with the game you've got.