The value of lessons

[Orikoru]

Couldn't disagree more with this.

Sure there may be situations where you can work out a problem and how to fix it, but I actually think that is a skill that most handicap golfers won't have. And in fact most tour pro's don't either and will have regular contact with a coach.

A good pro would be able to take the same situation and tell you what the problem is and how to fix it. And give you far more confidence that the solution is correct.

Your view on 'The pro wants you to keep coming back' is very cynical. As in you think he's going to actually give you duff information so you book another lesson!?! Absolute nonsense. Most pro's - especially those at a range who earn all revenue through lessons - rely on repeat custom because they get to know someone and give them reliable info and good tuition.

Ok - I accept lessons cost money and there will be a greater return for some people over others, but if Rory McIlroy and Brooks Koepka keep going back for coaching, then you'd need to be a fool to deprive yourself of someone's expertise.

He makes an interesting point though. If your issue is actually a simple one, is it in the pro's interest to give you that quick fix, knowing that it might be the last ever lesson you have? Or does he tell you to work on something else that he knows will take further lessons to get right?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Couldn't disagree more with this.

Sure there may be situations where you can work out a problem and how to fix it, but I actually think that is a skill that most handicap golfers won't have. And in fact most tour pro's don't either and will have regular contact with a coach.

A good pro would be able to take the same situation and tell you what the problem is and how to fix it. And give you far more confidence that the solution is correct.

Your view on 'The pro wants you to keep coming back' is very cynical. As in you think he's going to actually give you duff information so you book another lesson!?! Absolute nonsense. Most pro's - especially those at a range who earn all revenue through lessons - rely on repeat custom because they get to know someone and give them reliable info and good tuition.

Ok - I accept lessons cost money and there will be a greater return for some people over others, but if Rory McIlroy and Brooks Koepka keep going back for coaching, then you'd need to be a fool to deprive yourself of someone's expertise.

Totally agree and think the other post you replied to is very cynical and a jaded view.

Most weekend golfers lack the basics or get lazy in fundamentals and usually fix a flaw by adding a compensation in, which down the line leads to another issue. A good pro will be able to discuss what a pupil wants from a lesson/group of lessons and fix up a programme to help them. If you pick a good one they are genuinely pleased to see you improve and many (like mine) will take a video clip or email and give a response outside of booked lessons.

As you say if lessons are good enough for the top guys with repeatable swings then at our level while not a necessity can definitely help improve or at least produce more consistency (and enjoyment)

 

[Grant85]

He makes an interesting point though. If your issue is actually a simple one, is it in the pro's interest to give you that quick fix, knowing that it might be the last ever lesson you have? Or does he tell you to work on something else that he knows will take further lessons to get right?

Yes - it is. Because it's the right thing to do and you will have much more confidence in that pro.

I had a lesson last year with our pro. I was early and decided to have a warm up by playing 3 holes as the 1st tee was empty. Tee'd off, then went for my lesson which I'd decided would be on wedges / approach play. At the end of the lesson, the pro remarked that he'd seen me teeing off when I first arrived and my stance was very wide. He suggested a narrower stance and more central ball position.

Revolutionary fix and went out and played 3 holes in 1 over par with 3 great drives.


If you're going for a swing rebuild, then that requires a commitment and a bank of several hours of lessons and practice in between. A pro will discuss that with you and explain his plan and you can decide if you have the stomach and budget for it.

If you turn up for 1 lesson and you're fatting your irons or hooking your driver, then there may be a quick fix with regards to set up and a pro can suggest that as well.

 

[stefanovic]

Revolutionary fix and went out and played 3 holes in 1 over par with 3 great drives.

I was just waiting for that one.
'Anything works for 3 holes. What worked yesterday won't work today, and won't work tomorrow either.'

Golf is an endless cycle of faults and fixes.
Players commonly waste (who knows other than themselves) a lot of money on lessons and then find they end up back where they began.
It is also 90% inspiration and 10% perspiration.

I used to buy GM for the instruction, only to find that even in the same issue lessons contradicted each other.
I also remember the ads. 'My name is Alan Sadler and I know how you feel. I've had 100's of lessons, read all the books. I hated golf, but who can quit. Then I discovered the MAGIC MOVE. Send me £'s and I'll tell you all about it. Money back guarantee'.

Well, there ain't no magic move, secret or other instant remedy from the golf mongers, no matter who they are.
And as I know, as you get older your scores don't go down.

 

[RangeMonkey]

I was just waiting for that one.
'Anything works for 3 holes. What worked yesterday won't work today, and won't work tomorrow either.'

I can’t agree less. What worked yesterday will work today, all else being equal. Unless you believe in fairies. It’s simple mechanics. If it stops working, it’s because something changed. That doesn’t mean there’s no value in figuring out how to make things work.

Golf is an endless cycle of faults and fixes.
Players commonly waste (who knows other than themselves) a lot of money on lessons and then find they end up back where they began.
It is also 90% inspiration and 10% perspiration.

Of course it is an endless cycle, that’s why even the pros don’t score “perfect” rounds every week.

But there is enormous value in having a qualified person help you out with those fixes. If you don’t like having someone try to help, that’s fine. But you’d probably do better if you were able to take help. Most people are able to take help, and most people find it enormously ... helpful

I used to buy GM for the instruction, only to find that even in the same issue lessons contradicted each other.

I agree that magazines are not generally very useful. The reason the lessons in them can contradict each other is that different mechanics will work for different people, based on what is already going on with them. This is why there is enormous value in personal instruction. The instructors can see your actual swing, and make suitable changes. Magazines and YouTube just can’t do that, so if that’s the only “instruction” you’ve had, maybe that’s why you don’t see the value.

I also remember the ads. 'My name is Alan Sadler and I know how you feel. I've had 100's of lessons, read all the books. I hated golf, but who can quit. Then I discovered the MAGIC MOVE. Send me £'s and I'll tell you all about it. Money back guarantee'.

I’ve been buying GM for nearly a year, read it cover to cover. These adverts don’t exist.

Well, there ain't no magic move, secret or other instant remedy from the golf mongers, no matter who they are.

No, there isn’t. Especially not relying on some magical “inspiration”. What it takes is good instruction and hard work.

And as I know, as you get older your scores don't go down.

You know wrongly. Several people have already said their handicaps have reduced as they got older. Are you calling them liars?

 

[McToot the Bandit]

Interesting thread, with only a few catty little side bickerings going on (which for an interweb forum isn't that bad)

I've had about 8 lessons since I came back to golf last year and my experience has been broadly positive. The head pro who was teaching me was patient and only really focused on one or at most elements in a 30-minute session and the results have been palpable, though not revolutionary. Of course, you have to back up the lessons with plenty of practice and patience and the latter is where I have struggled - commuting 2-3 hours a day, 4 days a week and then dealiing with this infernally pissy winter.

But @sussexhacker - as most have said, try another teacher for a couple of session (don't necessarily base your judgement on the new guy/gal on one 30-minute session) and see how you go. I'm told there is a really good teacher at the Mid-Sussex club, which I don't think will be too far from you... I stuck to the head pro at my club, but I can get details details if you're interested.

 

[Grant85]

I was just waiting for that one.
'Anything works for 3 holes. What worked yesterday won't work today, and won't work tomorrow either.'

This is something that a pro told me, which worked and still worked. And is something I'll remember to watch for in the event my stance starts to widen or I find I lose a few left.

I don't really see your point. It worked for 3 holes because I played 3 holes. Obviously I don't pipe every drive down the middle (no one does), but I can get round and not carve any miles right into trouble and hit a few good ones to give myself chances.

Shot 82 yesterday, which is a good 15 to 20 shots better off than this time last year. A lot of that is down to driving a lot down to short irons and some decent chipping. I'd say there is no way I'd have worked out those things on my own and if I did stumble upon something there's no way I'd have confidence in it as the next time I had a bad round I'd be questioning things and going back to the drawing board.

 

[Curls]

I agree with @stefanovic in that you need to be able to diagnose and fix your own swing, because without the constant presence of a pro or a great swing ingrained by 100,000s of well struck balls you are bound to slip into a bad habit - or your timing is a little out and chaos ensues. I was at the range last night for the first time in a while and started poorly, was able to reset, do a drill, and get back to striking it well. You know who taught me that?

@bobmac

Go see a proper pro @stefanovic, not all are created equal ?

 

[bobmac]

I agree with @stefanovic in that you need to be able to diagnose and fix your own swing, because without the constant presence of a pro or a great swing ingrained by 100,000s of well struck balls you are bound to slip into a bad habit - or your timing is a little out and chaos ensues. I was at the range last night for the first time in a while and started poorly, was able to reset, do a drill, and get back to striking it well. You know who taught me that?

@bobmac

Go see a proper pro @stefanovic, not all are created equal ?

I've always taught self analysis, the ability to recognise your faults and fix them yourself.

No wonder I'm skint

Curls, glad it's still working after all these years

 

[larmen]

Yesterday for the 1st time I remember I managed to reset within a practice session.
I started with 10 OK to awful balls, took another 5 to reset myself by progressively chipping further with a 9 iron, then back into full swing and striking the ball better in a range than I ever have, I think.

Usually I mess up a whole bucket and work out what went wrong in the car back.

 

[Jacko_G]

Great thing about having a good coach is the ability to "self diagnose".

When I start to get "handsy" and "snatch" I now know what is the root cause. I have an understanding of my golf swing that I've not had since my early 20's.

I usually go and see Mark about once every 4/6 weeks and it's always just a "fine tune" and we're both happy with the previous work that is now really starting to bed in.

 

[stefanovic]

I agree with @stefanovic in that you need to be able to diagnose and fix your own swing, because without the constant presence of a pro or a great swing ingrained by 100,000s of well struck balls you are bound to slip into a bad habit - or your timing is a little out and chaos ensues. I was at the range last night for the first time in a while and started poorly, was able to reset, do a drill, and get back to striking it well.

I used to be great on the range. Standing on the flat mat I hardly ever missed the wide fairway. I could practice fades and draws and they would land in almost the same place. Short and mid irons to land close to flags were no problem either.
Unlike tennis where you can take 2 serves to get right, golf only allows 1 chance. Courses are seldom flat and fairways and greens have hazards. The swing thoughts I cultivated on the range were seldom successful on the course. I don't go there any more.

Step on to the first tee and be overloaded with lesson fixes and it's likely to be a recipe for disaster. After paying for a round I prefer to just ask a pro for advice. Like how many swing thoughts should I have. Best answer: 2 or 3. Can't fault that.

 

[Curls]

I used to be great on the range. Standing on the flat mat I hardly ever missed the wide fairway. I could practice fades and draws and they would land in almost the same place. Short and mid irons to land close to flags were no problem either.
Unlike tennis where you can take 2 serves to get right, golf only allows 1 chance. Courses are seldom flat and fairways and greens have hazards. The swing thoughts I cultivated on the range were seldom successful on the course. I don't go there any more.

Step on to the first tee and be overloaded with lesson fixes and it's likely to be a recipe for disaster. After paying for a round I prefer to just ask a pro for advice. Like how many swing thoughts should I have. Best answer: 2 or 3. Can't fault that.

I agree that range golf is not golf. I'll add to the problem that everything in the range is usually more or less parallel or orthogonal to the target, people's alignment on the course if often horrific. I am as guilty as anyone of that and have to constantly fight against it. I guess starting out I used the range to build a repeatable swing, but now it’s just a place to keep the swing loose. If you want to practice golf you have to do it on the course.

As for swing thoughts and 1st tee mental decay, that’s a different kettle of fish. I used to suffer from 1st tee mayhem but found building a repeatable pre-shot routine for my drives an enormous help. And no, I’m not JB Holmes about it, 5 seconds to go through 5 steps is plenty. That and experience - but you can’t learn that anywhere but on the course (and preferably in a comp/match that matters - it has to mean something to you).

But to come back to your original, disputed point, not all pros are snakeoil salesmen and not all advice is pointless in the grand scheme of things. People learn things from others and improve because of it. Forget the infinite variables of the swing. True, people can get worse having learned something that was detrimental, again for a litany of reasons. In the end, if you find the right pro and you apply yourself, you’ll improve as a golfer (you need both). Your ability to take that on the course and execute it on competition day is largely between your ears, but confidence can be bred through seeing repeatable positive results outside of the heat of battle.

 

[Hoganman1]

I think getting lessons is very important. It's especially important for beginners. Having the correct fundamentals such as set-up, grip and stance will get one started on the right foot. Once one has been playing for several years, getting a "tune up" is helpful. I've been playing for over fifty years and I still learn something every time I play or practice. My first teacher was Ben Hogan in that I read his book "Five Lessons" back in the 60s when I first started playing. I still go back to it today. Now that I'm retired I actually practice as much as I play. Having said that there is a big difference in hitting shots on the range and playing golf. One should be careful to not get "paralysis from analysis" after taking lessons. As someone else said, playing requires strategy and course management as well as hitting good shots. Golf is a frustrating game. As Bagger Vance said "it cannot be won; only played". If the lessons aren't working then take a break from your teacher and just go play. Focus on developing a good short game and becoming a good putter. That will probably improve your scores and your confidence.

 

[stefanovic]

I think getting lessons is very important. I've been playing for over fifty years and I still learn something every time I play or practice.

Yep. Lessons are a scam.

Golf is a frustrating game.

And a triumph of hope over experience.

 

[bobmac]

Yep. Lessons are a scam.

I disagree

 

[Jacko_G]

I disagree

You'd be best just to ignore.

 

[bagcarrier]

If you nail the basic fundamentals down in golf then you can get yourself down to a decent level if you're studious enough. Grip , posture , balance , takeaway , tempo and follow through are the vitals and all done well will make the game much easier.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

More most weekend golfers, bad habits will creep in as most aren't interested in practice. Going to a decent pro for most is the only way to "reset" rather than self-diagnose (usually incorrectly for most handicap golfers leading to one compensation masking another) and so the lesson is about tweaking rather than a major swing change.

 

[sussexhacker]

I’ve had my first session at the range after this lesson

I always have a random old club lying about the house somewhere and after quite a few drinks one night I picked it up and started swinging and I felt like I understood something better than in the lesson

During this first session back at the range I hit it better than ever before and having confidence again

Golf is a funny game