The SNIP

[Doon frae Troon]

Meanwhile the Scottish deficit

GERS figures are real and published by Scotgov.

I was not saying that they were not real.
They have to be published by the Scots Government under the terms of Westminster rule.

I said that they were rubbish and bore no relevance to Scotland as an Independent country.
Surprised that after all that has been published in the last few years that anyone still thinks that they do.
Since devolution Scotland has always stayed within it's budgeted figures, legally within the Westminster fiscal structure we cannot overspend.

 

[azazel]

a near 9% budget defecit with a 2k per person bonus from being in the UK - and you think that is a good excuse for getting better terms on your own. . Funny how nobody who wants independenance likes to answer any of the fundamental questions. But hey hey, the easy option for the rest of the UK when faced with this attitide is to say hey ho off you go and spend the extra money that Scotland gets on the rest of the Union.

You can't accurately or realistically judge a country's economic performance when that country doesn't control all aspects of its economy.

 

[Mandofred]

You can't accurately or realistically judge a country's economic performance when that country doesn't control all aspects of its economy.

Isn't this part of the argument for Brexit?

 

[PNWokingham]

I was not saying that they were not real.
They have to be published by the Scots Government under the terms of Westminster rule.

I said that they were rubbish and bore no relevance to Scotland as an Independent country.
Surprised that after all that has been published in the last few years that anyone still thinks that they do.
Since devolution Scotland has always stayed within it's budgeted figures, legally within the Westminster fiscal structure we cannot overspend.

so you want to overspend more than you already do . You might need to make some friends who would be happy to finance that - maybe have a word with China, they like funding countries that cannot borrow in other ways!!!

 

[PNWokingham]

You can't accurately or realistically judge a country's economic performance when that country doesn't control all aspects of its economy.

So you think full control of your finances and deficits - which will increase as the costs will go up as you will have a lower credit rating than the UK (and probably lower than many other countries like Ireland etc) to finance a defecit larger than anything in the EU - will enable you to do things better!! I am struggling with this concept. Maybe Wee Jimmy has a magical plan that she formulated in conjunction with Hogwarts!!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So you think full control of your finances and deficits - which will increase as the costs will go up as you will have a lower credit rating than the UK (and probably lower than many other countries like Ireland etc) to finance a defecit larger than anything in the EU - will enable you to do things better!! I am struggling with this concept. Maybe Wee Jimmy has a magical plan that she formulated in conjunction with Hogwarts!!

The UK now has a £2 trillion national debt
Anyone on here know what Scotland's share of that is.?
Maybe Benny from Crossroads has the answer.

 

[PNWokingham]

The UK now has a £2 trillion national debt
Anyone on here know what Scotland's share of that is.?
Maybe Benny from Crossroads has the answer.

Maybe Benny can come and help you Krank up the growth prospects along with Harry Potter!! ?

And the defecit is easy. Pro rata same as population

 

[PNWokingham]

The UK now has a £2 trillion national debt
Anyone on here know what Scotland's share of that is.?
Maybe Benny from Crossroads has the answer.

And on the debt feel free to have a plan on how you take on circa 170bn!

 

[azazel]

So you think full control of your finances and deficits - which will increase as the costs will go up as you will have a lower credit rating than the UK (and probably lower than many other countries like Ireland etc) to finance a defecit larger than anything in the EU - will enable you to do things better!! I am struggling with this concept. Maybe Wee Jimmy has a magical plan that she formulated in conjunction with Hogwarts!!

Seriously chief, put the emojis down for a second and look at the absolute state of the UK thanks to the successive governments "you" keep electing and therefore imposing on us. From illegal wars to austerity, Brexit and everything else, I'll take the chance on the financial side for an opportunity to get the government Scotland wants and a country actually run for the whole population and not just the Eton/Oxbridge mob.

 

[spongebob59]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1298986433412128769

 

[PNWokingham]

Seriously chief, put the emojis down for a second and look at the absolute state of the UK thanks to the successive governments "you" keep electing and therefore imposing on us. From illegal wars to austerity, Brexit and everything else, I'll take the chance on the financial side for an opportunity to get the government Scotland wants and a country actually run for the whole population and not just the Eton/Oxbridge mob.

For the record, the government is still elected across the whole UK that you begrudgingly are still part of! I know austerity is a rude word for the lefties on here but if you go independant you will get a rude and swift lesson in what it means. And the notion that everything is run for Eton mob, actually a very small element of society and thus almost irrelevant, is bonkers. Policies over the last decade have been predominately focused on the lower-income brackets - Middle UK have paid the heavy austerity price price since the financial crash, heavier than they ever should have if Gordon Brown had not mismanaged the economy in the previous decade. Anyway, this is way off topic - let's get back to the SNIP and what to do when you decide to leave - how are you going to run your new small, heavily indebted, no-currency, no credit rating, fiscally-challenged country better than now when you have all the benefits of the Barnett formula, being part of the 6th largest economy in the World etc etc? Better to stick to topic than deflecting about Boris, Tony Blair, the reality of trying to balance the books after the last profligate spenders.....

 

[KenL]

I was not saying that they were not real.
They have to be published by the Scots Government under the terms of Westminster rule.

I said that they were rubbish and bore no relevance to Scotland as an Independent country.
Surprised that after all that has been published in the last few years that anyone still thinks that they do.
Since devolution Scotland has always stayed within it's budgeted figures, legally within the Westminster fiscal structure we cannot overspend.

Having a massive deficit (way above rUK) is overspending, no?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

For the record, the government is still elected across the whole UK that you begrudgingly are still part of! I know austerity is a rude word for the lefties on here but if you go independant you will get a rude and swift lesson in what it means. And the notion that everything is run for Eton mob, actually a very small element of society and thus almost irrelevant, is bonkers. Policies over the last decade have been predominately focused on the lower-income brackets - Middle UK have paid the heavy austerity price price since the financial crash, heavier than they ever should have if Gordon Brown had not mismanaged the economy in the previous decade. Anyway, this is way off topic - let's get back to the SNIP and what to do when you decide to leave - how are you going to run your new small, heavily indebted, no-currency, no credit rating, fiscally-challenged country better than now when you have all the benefits of the Barnett formula, being part of the 6th largest economy in the World etc etc? Better to stick to topic than deflecting about Boris, Tony Blair, the reality of trying to balance the books after the last profligate spenders.....

What a load of rubbish! Bedroom tax, Welfare Cuts, Libraries closed, more Child Poverty, less Social House, record number of foodbanks, gap between richer and poorer wider than it’s ever been and all blamed on Brown.

So just what have the tories done after all these years in power? Oh yes that’s right, the one thing you admitted by admission, the rich are better off than anyone and have gained more.

 

[azazel]

For the record, the government is still elected across the whole UK that you begrudgingly are still part of! I know austerity is a rude word for the lefties on here but if you go independant you will get a rude and swift lesson in what it means. And the notion that everything is run for Eton mob, actually a very small element of society and thus almost irrelevant, is bonkers. Policies over the last decade have been predominately focused on the lower-income brackets - Middle UK have paid the heavy austerity price price since the financial crash, heavier than they ever should have if Gordon Brown had not mismanaged the economy in the previous decade. Anyway, this is way off topic - let's get back to the SNIP and what to do when you decide to leave - how are you going to run your new small, heavily indebted, no-currency, no credit rating, fiscally-challenged country better than now when you have all the benefits of the Barnett formula, being part of the 6th largest economy in the World etc etc? Better to stick to topic than deflecting about Boris, Tony Blair, the reality of trying to balance the books after the last profligate spenders.....

But that's the whole point, it isn't just about the economics. In addition to your skewed take on who's to blame for the state of the UK, you're falling into the same pattern as every unionist commentator on social media in reverting to that as the last remaining tool to try and argue about independence being bad and scary. If you're really interested in finding out more then go search for things like "GERS innacuracy" and similar terms and you'll find plenty to refute the idea that Scotland has such a big deficit.
And if "you" keep electing the Blairs and Borises then independence just gets more and more likely, so it's far from deflection.
Oh, and if you're actually after a serious conversation, you'd come across much better if you could actually bring yourself to type "SNP", even although they're really only the vehicle for independence rather than the end result.

 

[PNWokingham]

What a load of rubbish! Bedroom tax, Welfare Cuts, Libraries closed, more Child Poverty, less Social House, record number of foodbanks, gap between richer and poorer wider than it’s ever been and all blamed on Brown.

So just what have the tories done after all these years in power? Oh yes that’s right, the one thing you admitted by admission, the rich are better off than anyone and have gained more.

as mentioned, all of this is off topic but...gap between rich and poor is a universal global problem - so room to debate that elsewhere but there are no easy answers and not something that can be blamed on the past years of Tory government. The problem is very complex, global in nature and, personally, I believe, cause more than anything by low and negative interest rates that has cause an asset bubble - thus inflating the value of assets - and guess what, the already rich hold more assets than others and thus have indirectly benefitted disproportionately. The solution??

and of course there have been cuts, you cannot run a 10% budget deficit for long - as Scotland will rudely and swiftly find out were they to vote leave

 

[Captainron]

Once split away will Scotland make mince and mealie pies their national dish??? I blooming hope so! They were a revelation!

 

[PNWokingham]

But that's the whole point, it isn't just about the economics. You're falling into the same pattern as every unionist commentator on social media in reverting to that as the last remaining tool to try and argue about independence being bad and scary. If you're really interested in finding out more then go search for things like "GERS innacuracy" and similar terms and you'll find plenty to refute the idea that Scotland has such a big deficit.

instead of deflecting, once more, why do you not offer some comfort for your fellow citizens and answer the questions posed on what happens if you leave on currency, economic management, trade policies with UK (60%+ of exports), EU membership, credit ratings, financing the deficit etc ect - not a complicated question but all the leave fanatics who "want control of all their poloicies" are singularly failing to offer any clarity to these most fundamental issues

 

[Deleted member 16999]

as mentioned, all of this is off topic but...gap between rich and poor is a universal global problem - so room to debate that elsewhere but there are no easy answers and not something that can be blamed on the past years of Tory government. The problem is very complex, global in nature and, personally, I believe, cause more than anything by low and negative interest rates that has cause an asset bubble - thus inflating the value of assets - and guess what, the already rich hold more assets than others and thus have indirectly benefitted disproportionately. The solution??

and of course there have been cuts, you cannot run a 10% budget deficit for long - as Scotland will rudely and swiftly find out were they to vote leave

We, as in all of us, have to look at why so many people in Scotland want independence, you brought Brown and the problems over the last 10 years in to it. The situation has got worse for them, thete’s no doubt they were given promises by Cameron he didn’t keep prior to the last vote.

There’s very little genuine discussion when it comes to Scotland and the future, in the main it’s the English telling them how lucky they are and how bad the EU is whilst at the same time dismissing what they voted for as a Nation.

 

[PNWokingham]

We, as in all of us, have to look at why so many people in Scotland want independence, you brought Brown and the problems over the last 10 years in to it. The situation has got worse for them, thete’s no doubt they were given promises by Cameron he didn’t keep prior to the last vote.

There’s very little genuine discussion when it comes to Scotland and the future, in the main it’s the English telling them how lucky they are and how bad the EU is whilst at the same time dismissing what they voted for as a Nation.

you can go off on that topic if you want but i am asking the questions of how they cope with the massive elephants in the room raised. The rest is irrelvant to this part of the debate about what happens if they leave. Not interested in Brexit, Brown, Cameron etc here - just the reality dealing with independance as they must provide answers and plans here (even if not concrete solutions to everything) so the Scottish public can choose to go or not - no good Sturgeon glossing over and saying things like we will use the pound and have a say in monetary policy, as that is a complete non starter......

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

We, as in all of us, have to look at why so many people in Scotland want independence, you brought Brown and the problems over the last 10 years in to it. The situation has got worse for them, thete’s no doubt they were given promises by Cameron he didn’t keep prior to the last vote.

There’s very little genuine discussion when it comes to Scotland and the future, in the main it’s the English telling them how lucky they are and how bad the EU is whilst at the same time dismissing what they voted for as a Nation.

I believe the reason Scots want Independence is because they think they've had a bum deal from Westminster. The bulk of industry in Scotland has gone (coal mining, ship building etc) because of several factors outwith Westminster's control. China and Korea rule the roost in those industries now because of cheap labour so we just could not produce competitively priced products.
Once the Scots realise this and stop blaming the English then they might start thinking about the best ways to regenerate their economy.