The SNIP

[drdel]

At the moment I think it would be wise for the SNP to support the Government in their efforts to get a free trade deal with the EU. If the UK can do that then very little will materially change for Scotland's economy and the quest for Indyref2 can be pursued on a logical and rational basis.

If Indyref2 was to proceed too quickly then an independent Scotland could face major issues with the cross-border trade (rUK being the biggest customer by far), currency, defence, air traffic, health, etc.

Waiting would give the SNP time to get their current dire management of Scotland's economy in shape for when/if they every want to join the EU at some future date.

IMO independence benefits are over estimated and an emotionally driven push would land Scotland constrained by massive debt -rushing by the SNP is unnecessarily adding risk.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

At the moment I think it would be wise for the SNP to support the Government in their efforts to get a free trade deal with the EU. If the UK can do that then very little will materially change for Scotland's economy and the quest for Indyref2 can be pursued on a logical and rational basis.

If Indyref2 was to proceed too quickly then an independent Scotland could face major issues with the cross-border trade (rUK being the biggest customer by far), currency, defence, air traffic, health, etc.

Waiting would give the SNP time to get their current dire management of Scotland's economy in shape for when/if they every want to join the EU at some future date.

IMO independence benefits are over estimated and an emotionally driven push would land Scotland constrained by massive debt -rushing by the SNP is unnecessarily adding risk.

Remember all that Sturgeon is asking for is the right to hold a referendum at a time of choosing of the Scottish Government.

She will not call one until she feels she will win it. Johnson knows that the best way of 'holding up' another referendum is to give Sturgeon the power to hold one - he will then know that the best way of knackering a rise in support for Independence is to get a great deal that benefits Scotland as much as rUK - and so by involving Sturgeon in the trade deal negotiations in some way he bursts her balloon that says 'Scotland not involved - and deal is bad for Scotland'.

But first he has to take the risk of handing the decision across to her. Then he involves her in getting a great Trade Deal - great for ALL of the UK.

 

[drdel]

Remember all that Sturgeon is asking for is the right to hold a referendum at a time of choosing of the Scottish Government.

She will not call one until she feels she will win it. Johnson knows that the best way of 'holding up' another referendum is to give Sturgeon the power to hold one - he will then know that the best way of knackering a rise in support for Independence is to get a great deal that benefits Scotland as much as rUK - and so by involving Sturgeon in the trade deal negotiations in some way he bursts her balloon that says 'Scotland not involved - and deal is bad for Scotland'.

But first he has to take the risk of handing the decision across to her. Then he involves her in getting a great Trade Deal - great for ALL of the UK.

IMO that would be a strategically daft move and just adds noise - let the FM show a desire to cooperate in good faith for Scotland and rUK; if that genuine involvement is not possible then that shows the real political motives are not aligned.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

IMO that would be a strategically daft move and just adds noise - let the FM show a desire to cooperate in good faith for Scotland and rUK; if that genuine involvement is not possible then that shows the real political motives are not aligned.

She can only become involved if she is invited - we were told she would be involved all the way through Brexit WA negotiations and it didn't really happen. If Johnson is to have Sturgeon involved he has to accept the flip side of what he has forced the EU to accept - engage with us or it's No Deal.

He must force himself to engage with Sturgeon by giving her the power to call a referendum . If he genuinely doesn't want another referendum then he must enable and ensure that Sturgeon is involved in the negotiations - force himself to involve her - certainly against his own wishes - but it is the best way of bursting Sturgeon's 'Johnson and his government don't care about Scotland' balloon.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

IMO that would be a strategically daft move and just adds noise - let the FM show a desire to cooperate in good faith for Scotland and rUK; if that genuine involvement is not possible then that shows the real political motives are not aligned.

Cooperate in good faith
Good grief have you witnessed ANY good faith offered to Scotland by this government since Brexit started.
The way they are treated by arrogant loud mouths at Westminster is just dreadful

 

[Dando]

Remember all that Sturgeon is asking for is the right to hold a referendum at a time of choosing of the Scottish Government.

She will not call one until she feels she will win it. Johnson knows that the best way of 'holding up' another referendum is to give Sturgeon the power to hold one - he will then know that the best way of knackering a rise in support for Independence is to get a great deal that benefits Scotland as much as rUK - and so by involving Sturgeon in the trade deal negotiations in some way he bursts her balloon that says 'Scotland not involved - and deal is bad for Scotland'.

But first he has to take the risk of handing the decision across to her. Then he involves her in getting a great Trade Deal - great for ALL of the UK.

she's already had her "once in a generation" vote

 

[Dando]

She can only become involved if she is invited - we were told she would be involved all the way through Brexit WA negotiations and it didn't really happen. If Johnson is to have Sturgeon involved he has to accept the flip side of what he has forced the EU to accept - engage with us or it's No Deal.

He must force himself to engage with Sturgeon by giving her the power to call a referendum . If he genuinely doesn't want another referendum then he must enable and ensure that Sturgeon is involved in the negotiations - force himself to involve her - certainly against his own wishes - but it is the best way of bursting Sturgeon's 'Johnson and his government don't care about Scotland' balloon.

as he as a majority he hasn't got to do anything you suggest.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

as he as a majority he hasn't got to do anything you suggest.

Of course he doesn't - but if he doesn't attempt to engage with her in a serious way then that is just the sort of behaviour that stokes the SNP fire, and that is likely to convert waverers to the Indy cause. If he seriously wishes to avoid independence then he has to force himself to engage with her.

 

[Dando]

Of course he doesn't - but if he doesn't attempt to engage with her in a serious way then that is just the sort of behaviour that stokes the SNP fire, and that is likely to convert waverers to the Indy cause. If he seriously wishes to avoid independence then he has to force himself to engage with her.

the snp doesn't need their fire stoking!
if he wants to avoid independence then all he needs to do is ignore the poison dwarf.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

the snp doesn't need their fire stoking!
if he wants to avoid independence then all he needs to do is ignore the poison dwarf.

You do realise that you are abusing the Scottish First Minister - not some tart you met down the pub. And that your vitriolic abuse is precisely the sort of thing that drives Scots into the independence fold - and causes quite a number of Scots to hold a negative view of The English. Maybe that's just what you want.

 

[HughJars]

the snp doesn't need their fire stoking!
if he wants to avoid independence then all he needs to do is ignore the poison dwarf.

And there we are again, and people wonder why we want out?

I had the pleasure of meeting her for the first time this campaign, charismatic, caring, classy, not in the least poisonous nor dwarfish! Idiot.

 

[Dando]

You do realise that you are abusing the Scottish First Minister - not some tart you met down the pub. And that your vitriolic abuse is precisely the sort of thing that drives Scots into the independence fold - and causes quite a number of Scots to hold a negative view of The English. Maybe that's just what you want.

I don't care who she is - she is a one trick pony who should try and put some effort into sorting out Scotlands problems rather than bleating on about indepedence

I guess what you've said over the past 3 years has be perfectly acceptable

 

[Dando]

And there we are again, and people wonder why we want out?

I had the pleasure of meeting her for the first time this campaign, charismatic, caring, classy, not in the least poisonous nor dwarfish! Idiot.

I am sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't loose a seconds sleep if you decided to leave in another "once in a generation" vote

 

[Hobbit]

You do realise that you are abusing the Scottish First Minister - not some tart you met down the pub. And that your vitriolic abuse is precisely the sort of thing that drives Scots into the independence fold - and causes quite a number of Scots to hold a negative view of The English. Maybe that's just what you want.

Just an observation but you do realise you often abuse the Prime Minister of the UK... just saying...

 

[Dando]

Just an observation but you do realise you often abuse the Prime Minister of the UK... just saying...

but that's ok!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Scots Tories only had on issue on their leaflets and propaganda and that was 'Vote to stop Indyref2'
This was very strongly rejected by voters, the party losing half of their already small number of MP's.
Basically Scotland voted in very small numbers to stop Indyref2

On the other hand The SNP had a three issue attack, stop the Tories, stop Brexit and support Indyref 2 .
Some voters would chose not to vote for them on the strength of just one of those issues.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Just an observation but you do realise you often abuse the Prime Minister of the UK... just saying...

Not in such an obnoxious manner though.
Some of the anti Scots stuff on here is in very poor form others simply childlike.......must be the brave new world of Boris.

 

[Dando]

Not in such an obnoxious manner though.
Some of the anti Scots stuff on here is in very poor form others simply childlike.......must be the brave new world of Boris.

whatever!

 

[Deleted member 21258]

 

[Doon frae Troon]

she's already had her "once in a generation" vote

Why do you and other broken record types on here choose to ignore the constant comments on 'fundamental change' as covered in the Edinburgh Agreement.
It seems that both the Belfast and Edinburgh agreements are just being ripped up by this Government without even any conversation taking place.

What are you so scared of with Scottish Independence, do you not think the rUK will survive without our input.