The SNIP

[Deleted member 21258]

You're always one of the more considered posters on here but I felt compelled to reply to this message. I'm an Englishman in Scotland and my reasons for voting for independence tie in with this way of thinking. The trade unions followed by Thatcher (just to be apolotical about the reasons) ripped the guts out of regions such as Scotland, North England etc. They used to be the work horse of the UK and are now the benefit vacuum's. We've had 40 years of government of 2 different hues in this time who have failed these regions consistently. The rail, road and air system linking these areas and the rest of the world together are pathetic and if you think that Scotland would be a tourism based economy then the fault lies squarely at Westminster's door. So unless there's a genuine co-ordinated plan and not just PR guff about Northern powerhouse then I'm all for trying a different way because 40 years is a long time to have made big inroads into these issues.

I read this link with interest :-

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-how-are-the-snp-helping-to-improve-scotland-s-economic-performance/

if SNP have been taking action since 2007, why hasn't there been more success by SNP in Scotland, that you are able to see ? and how would that change if Scotland was independent. There are no magic wands for employment, its means business and investment in areas..(honest questions and interested to hear your reply to the two questions)

 

[ger147]

Just my opinion but I am certain that a second referendum on Scottish independence will be agreed within the next 5 years. The calls to have one will be too strong to resist as the main plank of the Better Together campaign was to guarantee Scotland staying in the EU.

Just my opinion, other opinions are available...

 

[Slab]

Actually, I'm quite happy for Scotland to go. It is a country divided by religious bigotry.
Let them make up the rules as they go along.
Let them deceive each other with economic forecasts about how great Scotland will be. Don't tell them that economics is in no way a science.
Don't expect us to bail out one of their banks again.
Leave that to the EU, who will also be expected to throw buckets of money into Scotland.
Let the EU control Scotland's immigration policy.

If Indyref2 is not successful then how soon would the SNP start talking about Indyref3?
The very next day.

So you reckon a political party called the Scottish national party, who got where they are when they basically had one political aim, with every success attributable at least in part, to that one aim.... should just shelve it as no longer relevant

Wouldn't that be a bit like Liverpool ditching that salah fella because he was decent for them last year?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

I read this link with interest :-

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-how-are-the-snp-helping-to-improve-scotland-s-economic-performance/

if SNP have been taking action since 2007, why hasn't there been more success by SNP in Scotland, that you are able to see ? and how would that change if Scotland was independent. There are no magic wands for employment, its means business and investment in areas..(honest questions and interested to hear your reply to the two questions)

First up, I've never voted SNP (although my wife did at this election). I think we're however beginning to see the shoots of improvement but as I'm sure you'll be aware when you're changing the direction of decades decline, 12 years is a drop in the ocean. My wife has been consultant working on 2 academia/industry hybrid projects in science and green deals. There certainly seems to be will there and I for one am in full support of the intent.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

First up, I've never voted SNP (although my wife did at this election). I think we're however beginning to see the shoots of improvement but as I'm sure you'll be aware when you're changing the direction of decades decline, 12 years is a drop in the ocean. My wife has been consultant working on 2 academia/industry hybrid projects in science and green deals. There certainly seems to be will there and I for one am in full support of the intent.

Hope it works and continues, should really start filtering into jobs etc, after 12 years of trying, if what they say is true. And blaming Westminster almost 100% by some people isn't quite right IMHO.

I certainly wasn't accusing you of anything, I am genuinely interested to hear peoples thoughts. As like to understand, I thought it was a little strange as westminster are not fully in control is that area (ie. Scotland government) and SNP are always saying what a great job they are doing.

Like to hear thoughts and thought processes, cheers for the reply. Rather than cheap points that so many seem to post on here, which is a real shame, as the important stuff is never discussed, ie why someone truly believes in X. Without being able to talk and express yourself ,there is no way forward and in todays worlds the government is always blaming someone.

For example used to hear the EU blamed for a number of things, when it wasn't unusual that the UK would introduce the legalisation at the earliest or at it full strength. And look what happened there to some extent.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I read this link with interest :-

https://www.snp.org/policies/pb-how-are-the-snp-helping-to-improve-scotland-s-economic-performance/

if SNP have been taking action since 2007, why hasn't there been more success by SNP in Scotland, that you are able to see ? and how would that change if Scotland was independent. There are no magic wands for employment, its means business and investment in areas..(honest questions and interested to hear your reply to the two questions)

Of course in this we have no idea what Scotland would have been like today had other parties been in power. It may be the case that the SNP have been fantastically successful in mitigating issues that could have seen Scotland in a significantly worse state than it is in today. We just do not, and cannot, know.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Of course in this we have no idea what Scotland would have been like today had other parties been in power. It may be the case that the SNP have been fantastically successful in mitigating issues that could have seen Scotland in a significantly worse state than it is in today. We just do not, and cannot, know.

Sorry think you are replying/quoting me out of context and your reply doesn't take the original post into account. The original post I responded to, was very much still blaming Westminster for everything. Which I thought was strange, given Scotland has its own government, which can change things under its 'remit'.

IMHO it isn't quite right to blame Westminster, as Scotland has their own government and SNP blows it own trumpet quite a lot, but if they are creating masses of jobs as kind of per their website, and the people can not see it after 12 years, they are failing as well IMHO.

But anyway have some work to do, all the best.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Hope it works and continues, should really start filtering into jobs etc, after 12 years of trying, if what they say is true. And blaming Westminster almost 100% by some people isn't quite right IMHO.

I certainly wasn't accusing you of anything, I am genuinely interested to hear peoples thoughts. As like to understand, I thought it was a little strange as westminster are not fully in control is that area (ie. Scotland government) and SNP are always saying what a great job they are doing.

Like to hear thoughts and thought processes, cheers for the reply. Rather than cheap points that so many seem to post on here, which is a real shame, as the important stuff is never discussed, ie why someone truly believes in X. Without being able to talk and express yourself ,there is no way forward and in todays worlds the government is always blaming someone.

For example used to hear the EU blamed for a number of things, when it wasn't unusual that the UK would introduce the legalisation at the earliest or at it full strength. And look what happened there to some extent.

To really turn things around you need to have full fiscal autonomy as well. The SNP aren't the be all end all when it comes to parties up here, I'm hopeful we'd have some sort of PR and that parties could reconfigure themselves to be more in tune with the electorate. If people were dissatisfied with the SNP there would be a viable alternative to vote for. Many up here liked Ruth Davidson but wouldn't vote Tory because of who put it in at Westminster.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

So you reckon a political party called the Scottish national party, who got where they are when they basically had one political aim, with every success attributable at least in part, to that one aim.... should just shelve it as no longer relevant

Wouldn't that be a bit like Liverpool ditching that salah fella because he was decent for them last year?

That's quality banter

 

[patricks148]

Actually, I'm quite happy for Scotland to go. It is a country divided by religious bigotry.
Let them make up the rules as they go along.
Let them deceive each other with economic forecasts about how great Scotland will be. Don't tell them that economics is in no way a science.
Don't expect us to bail out one of their banks again.
Leave that to the EU, who will also be expected to throw buckets of money into Scotland.
Let the EU control Scotland's immigration policy.

If Indyref2 is not successful then how soon would the SNP start talking about Indyref3?
The very next day.

thats rich, coming from one of the biggest biggots ever to post on this forum.

your post also shows how little you know about Scotland and just reinforces the opinion most of on here would have of you ... a sad bitter loner

 

[patricks148]

To really turn things around you need to have full fiscal autonomy as well. The SNP aren't the be all end all when it comes to parties up here, I'm hopeful we'd have some sort of PR and that parties could reconfigure themselves to be more in tune with the electorate. If people were dissatisfied with the SNP there would be a viable alternative to vote for. Many up here liked Ruth Davidson but wouldn't vote Tory because of who put it in at Westminster.

True....many thought they would just disapear once we had the referendum... RD again though was a bit of a popularist and the tories for much of the last 30 years have hardly had more than one MP in Scotland, she made a few people forget the damage the Tories had done to Scoland

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Interesting question being asked of BBC Scotland.
What are you going to do to promote democracy in Scotland.



August post..... but makes you wonder when Scots Labour will jump on the Independence train.
Broke and with one MP they have to do something quite radical to survive.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/40-of-scottish-labour-voters-support-independence/

 

[lobthewedge]

What approach do you think the SNP should take then re indy2? (there’s really not that many options)

1. OK folks it’s a bit soon to be talking about indy2 etc so let’s just calm down and let the UK government lead us out of Europe, if Boris wants our help/advice/input on the exit and internal negotiations I’m sure he’ll ask for it despite his party'sstanding in this country and doubtless Scotland will be as strongly represented as it ought to be
2. Look folks regardless of whether we think there’s any reality of it happening anytime soon we must still push for Indy2 for several reasons but not least because we’re coming out of Europe and Boris must be required to ask for our help/advice/input because unless we’re in a position of some strength he sure as hell won’t bother asking us about it

What would you do if you were in her shoes? Whether you agree or not the SNP must raise the matter. It’s not a tough one to figure out

I perfectly understand her need to raise the request, she would be lynched by her supporters if she didnt. But once it is refused, I would like to see her and the SNP actually get on with running the country, trying to address some of the domestic issues Scotland has and put the independence debate on the back burner for a few years, at least until we see what the reality of Brexit actually is.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I perfectly understand her need to raise the request, she would be lynched by her supporters if she didnt. But once it is refused, I would like to see her and the SNP actually get on with running the country, trying to address some of the domestic issues Scotland has and put the independence debate on the back burner for a few years, at least until we see what the reality of Brexit actually is.

I know that the Scottish government is not perfect but would you not agree that the SNP have done a pretty efficient job of running the country.
Take a read through that list ,surely that is the main reason that they have so much support throughout the country.

https://www.snp.org/record/

That is some record, I moved back to Scotland in 1998 and the improvement to the country is quite astonishing.
My grandchildren all enjoy the superb new schools they attend, 20 years ago their old schools were a disgrace.
My wife attends superb new health facilities, 20 years ago they were a disgrace.
I save at least 20 minutes on my visits from west coast to east, 20 years ago we did not even have our two major cities linked by a motorway.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

This lovely lady nails it, Take a look at the [political] colours of the map, does that look like a United Kingdom to you.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1205812770819788802

 

[patricks148]

This lovely lady nails it, Take a look at the [political] colours of the map, does that look like a United Kingdom to you.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1205812770819788802

she sums it up well

 

[lobthewedge]

I know that the Scottish government is not perfect but would you not agree that the SNP have done a pretty efficient job of running the country.
Take a read through that list ,surely that is the main reason that they have so much support throughout the country.

.

I would suggest the main reason they have such support throughout the country is due to the decline and collapse of the Labour party over the past decade or so.

Sections of society will never vote Tory and with Labour being unelectable, and the LibDems shooting themselves in the foot under Clegg they migrated towards SNP because there was no other option. Throw in the Brexit chaos over the past few years and a perfect environment was created for the SNP to further its agenda, and spread more division. Credit where its due they have played a blinder, but its been handed to them on a plate by incompetent politicians on both sides of the border.

I just feel that pushing for indyref2 at this time is hasty and oopportunistic on the part of the SNP, and voters would not have a clear choice to make. Give it a few years, see how Brexit is panning out and let us all make a more informed choice instead of this knee jerk reaction while the unionist parties are either distracted by Brexit negotiations or in complete disarray.

As for the SNP record (as published by themsleves), you make Scotland sound like some sort of Utopia, so why rock the boat with the uncertainty that independence will bring when we would seem to have it so good??

 

[stefanovic]

thats rich, coming from one of the biggest biggots ever to post on this forum.

As an atheist, I cannot be a bigott (I assume you mean a bigot).

your post also shows how little you know about Scotland

Scotland has been and still is one of the most sectarian countries on Earth.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/rel...-as-conservatives-rise-again-in-scotland.html

and just reinforces the opinion most of on here would have of you ... a sad bitter loner

Says you with your over 18000 posts. You must live on this forum ready to spout out whatever comes into your head.

 

[patricks148]

As an atheist, I cannot be a bigott (I assume you mean a bigot).


Scotland has been and still is one of the most sectarian countries on Earth.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/rel...-as-conservatives-rise-again-in-scotland.html


Says you with your over 18000 posts. You must live on this forum ready to spout out whatever comes into your head.

you don't help yourself do you, unless you have just been on the crack again

i do indeed have 18K of posts, but those are pretty much all about golf, rather than, sad bitter ravings of a crack head who's only reason for being on here is to offend and troll

 

[HughJars]

I would suggest the main reason they have such support throughout the country is due to the decline and collapse of the Labour party over the past decade or so.

The decline and near extinction of Labour is due to the SNP initially proving so competent in govt that voters swung behind them in huge numbers, this then led to the majority govt of 2012 that led to indyref in 2014, Labour's behaviour since, basically getting into bed with the Tories at every opportunity has just seen them fall further off the map.

Yes the SNP have benefited, but they caused it positively.