The SNIP

[lobthewedge]

But to answer your question... the bonds of Westminster are just that... bonds. If the UK wants to lower VAT, raise corporation tax, declare war on Turkey etc. then Scotland has none or very little say in that.
Within the EU, they would be in a partnership. Look at the influence that Varadkar has over EU negotiations... he has been backed to the hilt by the EU as a small nation of around 1.5% of the EU population.
Compare that with the Scottish Government within the UK framework whose attempts at compromise (EFTA type proposal) were completely dismissed out of hand at the early stages with basically zero attempt to involve Scottish government or even Scottish politicians in the process as it has gone on.

So to say we would be governed even more tightly as an independent nation within the EU is just simply nonsense. An iScottish government would have far more scope to set policy for Scotland, as opposed to simply hoping that policy for London / England matches or doesn't interfere with Scottish interests.

Would the EU set Scottish VAT? No
Would the EU force Scotland into a war? No
Would the EU prevent Scotland from having a referendum on anything? No

i think varadkar has had the eu support because it suits their purposes. The ni issue was always going to be a political pawn in these negotiations, hence the reason varadkar has been pushed to the forefront and shown the support. I’m fairly certain when it comes to the day to day runnings of the eu and the bigger decision they make , varadkar and his influence would get lost in amongst the other smaller nations of the eu, just as an independent Scotland’s would.

i don’t doubt that an independent Scotland within the eu would have more scope to set policy for ourselves, only so long as as it doesn’t interfere with eu interests, then I think we would realise how small a player we truly are on our own. sure we could set our own vat and corporation tax rates, but chances are our budget would need signed off and scrutinised by the eu, especially if we were in the single currency.

would the eu force us into a war? Not as it currently stands no. but they are pushing for more political integration and there are plans for an european army. Who’s to say that in years to come scottish soldiers arent called upon to fight for eu interests entirely foreign to our own?

you talk about being ignored and not being heard in london, but I feel the snp and especially the current crop of mps they have in Westminster could never and will never see themselves as a partner in the uk. the chip on their shoulders and the independence blinkers they wear forbid them from it.

 

[Fade and Die]

If Scotland is such a big drain on the UK, why are they so keen to keep us?

Your statements are completely ill informed and neglect reality of an energy rich, resource rich nation - desirable for people to live & work in with a population of English speaking graduates that would be attractive to a range of businesses priced out of London or Dublin markets.

Serious question, why is it not those things now whilst you are part of the UK? Why do a lot of your brightest people leave? do you think that will change once you become independent or will you continue to have a shrinking work age population?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49841460

 

[patricks148]

I accept it is blindingly obvious, they are not trying to hide that. Along with Brexit this seems to be an issue that has no end. The SNP seem well ensconced as the main party in Scotland so even if they lose another referendum this will raise its head again and again.

It is tiring hearing about it over and over on the national news, it must be even more wearing on regional news north of the border.

In that case i apologise for Scotland boring you for wanting to have decision over its own destiny, its future. and its independance.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I am absolutely certain that an Independent Scotland within the EU would attract much investment and re-settlement from the people of England.

why are you so certain of that ?
Surely Scotland would need to be accepted into the EU as an Independent country and that’s not a guarentee is it

 

[Doon frae Troon]

i think varadkar has had the eu support because it suits their purposes. The ni issue was always going to be a political pawn in these negotiations, hence the reason varadkar has been pushed to the forefront and shown the support. I’m fairly certain when it comes to the day to day runnings of the eu and the bigger decision they make , varadkar and his influence would get lost in amongst the other smaller nations of the eu, just as an independent Scotland’s would.

i don’t doubt that an independent Scotland within the eu would have more scope to set policy for ourselves, only so long as as it doesn’t interfere with eu interests, then I think we would realise how small a player we truly are on our own. sure we could set our own vat and corporation tax rates, but chances are our budget would need signed off and scrutinised by the eu, especially if we were in the single currency.

would the eu force us into a war? Not as it currently stands no. but they are pushing for more political integration and there are plans for an european army. Who’s to say that in years to come scottish soldiers arent called upon to fight for eu interests entirely foreign to our own?

you talk about being ignored and not being heard in london, but I feel the snp and especially the current crop of mps they have in Westminster could never and will never see themselves as a partner in the uk. the chip on their shoulders and the independence blinkers they wear forbid them from it.

The SNP as the third largest UK Political party represent Scotland at Westminster, that is what the people of Scotland voted for.
I have no idea which political party you support, but can you honestly see them getting anywhere near the popularity of the SNP within 10 years.
Scots Tories and Scots Labour votes combined more or less equate to the SNP vote.
Being a bit obvious, why should the SNP ever see themselves as a partner in the UK.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

why are you so certain of that ?
Surely Scotland would need to be accepted into the EU as an Independent country and that’s not a guarentee is it

Can you post up a credible link that says otherwise. [No Mail, Express or Telegraph stuff please]
One of your pals tried that line earlier but still seems to be scratching about for one

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Can you post up a credible link that says otherwise. [No Mail, Express or Telegraph stuff please]
One of your pals tried that line earlier but still seems to be scratching about for one

Surely it should be you backing up your statement

So can you provide a credible link that says it’s a guarentee that Scotland will be accepted into the EU ?

 

[Foxholer]

...
Being a bit obvious, why should the SNP ever see themselves as a partner in the UK.

Perhaps because it's better - for Scotland - to be a 'A Scotland oriented partner' than a 'bunch of rebellious Scots'!

 

[lobthewedge]

The SNP as the third largest UK Political party represent Scotland at Westminster, that is what the people of Scotland voted for.
I have no idea which political party you support, but can you honestly see them getting anywhere near the popularity of the SNP within 10 years.
Scots Tories and Scots Labour votes combined more or less equate to the SNP vote.
Being a bit obvious, why should the SNP ever see themselves as a partner in the UK.

until the main parties sort themselves out, or another unionist party comes to the fore, no I don’t see the snp losing many seats. but I don’t feel they are a true representation of the people of Scotland at Westminster. Like I said and you have reinforced with your parting question, they have this unhealthy ingrained psyche that forbids them from acting for the good of the uk, only adding to the toxicity of politics at this time.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Serious question, why is it not those things now whilst you are part of the UK? Why do a lot of your brightest people leave? do you think that will change once you become independent or will you continue to have a shrinking work age population?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-49841460

The easy answer is that the brightest leave Scotland to help sort out the rest of the world - as historically we have always done

For my part (not so bright) - when I graduated in the early 1980s the job opportunities that I was interested in were pretty much all in the south of England. Things were rather desperate and limited - I actually applied for a job in Lochgelly...

 

[Hobbit]

If Scotland is such a big drain on the UK, why are they so keen to keep us?

Your statements are completely ill informed and neglect reality of an energy rich, resource rich nation - desirable for people to live & work in with a population of English speaking graduates that would be attractive to a range of businesses priced out of London or Dublin markets.

Energy and resource rich? There is undoubtedly the potential for that without question but that will need investment. Desireable for people to live and work? I'd happily visit and live in Edinburgh but I'd rather scoop out my eyes with a wooden spoon than live in Aberdeen, again, or Glasgow. Too many not very nice people for me - some very nice people, some of which we're still in contact with, but also too many real A-holes.

As for the EU would welcome Scotland; I think they would. But in terms of financial rules to join, I suggest you look at what the GDP is supposed to be to pass the criteria. It didn't stop the EU from relaxing those rules in 2010 for Eastern Europe but if they decide to re-adopt them Scotland won't get in.

Honestly, if Scotland did go for independence I'd hope they did a Norway. They have enough long term oil revenue to run the economy Norway-style, and make a real good positive go of it. If they go for EU membership they need to consider how the EU is currently forcing financial issues on Ireland and Italy.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Surely it should be you backing up your statement

So can you provide a credible link that says it’s a guarentee that Scotland will be accepted into the EU ?

Groan.....back to your old tricks I see.
Loads of stuff about that Scotland would be welcomed into the EU,
Sorry that does not suit your agenda and, as it is you, I cannot be @rsed to post them up.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Perhaps because it's better - for Scotland - to be a 'A Scotland oriented partner' than a 'bunch of rebellious Scots'!

I agree, but it is eye bleedingly obvious that it is an extremely one sided partnership

 

[Fade and Die]

The easy answer is that the brightest leave Scotland to help sort out the rest of the world - as historically we have always done

For my part (not so bright) - when I graduated in the early 1980s the job opportunities that I was interested in were pretty much all in the south of England. Things were rather desperate and limited - I actually applied for a job in Lochgelly...

To be honest, I know it was slightly tongue-in-cheek but I don’t disagree with the bold bit, the question I was asking Grant is regarding his statement “desirable for people to live & work in with a population of English speaking graduates that would be attractive to a range of businesses priced out of London or Dublin markets.” Why is it not possible to be that now but it will be as an independent country in the EU?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Groan.....back to your old tricks I see.
Loads of stuff about that Scotland would be welcomed into the EU,
Sorry that does not suit your agenda and, as it is you, I cannot be @rsed to post them up.

old tricks ?

I guess you can’t provide any links that state Scotland are guarenteed to be accept into the EU.

I am absolutely certain that an Independent Scotland within the EU would attract much investment and re-settlement from the people of England.

So I’ll ask again - why are you so certain when there is no guarantee that

The EU will accept Scotland

And an Independent Scotland within the EU will attract the investment ?

It’s a simple polite question

 

[Foxholer]

I agree, but it is eye bleedingly obvious that it is an extremely one sided partnership

Well, with a population ratio of about 10-12:1, expecting 'equal' partnership isn't really on! 'Equated' seems more appropriate!

 

[ColchesterFC]

I agree, but it is eye bleedingly obvious that it is an extremely one sided partnership

Totally agree. One side subsidises the other massively and the other side whines about how unfairly they're being treated while spending all the money.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

old tricks ?

I guess you can’t provide any links that state Scotland are guarenteed to be accept into the EU.



So I’ll ask again - why are you so certain when there is no guarantee that

The EU will accept Scotland

And an Independent Scotland within the EU will attract the investment ?

It’s a simple polite question

I know I said that I could not be @rsed but, as you seem to be struggling with the technology, just type in 'Would Scotland be welcomed back into the EU' and fill your boots.

 

[Dando]

I hear that WJK has been caught doing a “Hilary”

 

[drdel]

The EU's serious concerns are focused on their eastern borders and 'managing' the Russians.

An independent Scotland might get 'in' but with EU economic trends you might soon wish you weren't. Try retaining the oil wealth under those circumstances!