The point of 'No Returns'...

[Fyldewhite]

Very interesting thread and there are two very different issues being debated and possibly confused.

Not returning a card is against the rules of the handicap system, can affect the CSS and potentially therefore the handicaps of many other players in the competition. This should rightly be stamped on by the committee and repeat offenders should be suspended from competitions - end of.

Not returning a score on a hole in a medal (making the whole card what is commonly called an "NR") is, as has been pointed out often the most sensible thing to do. There should be absolutely no stigma in doing this so long as it doesn't end up being the norm. It doesn't mean you have to walk off which is obviously not good etiquette and doesn't mean you then pick up on all the other holes as the card still counts and ISN'T an automatic 0.1 as so many people seem to think. How many times have you heard someone say following a 40 point stableford score "That was with a couple of blobs too". It is quite possible to score in the buffer zone or better with an NR.

 

[doc17]

I caddied last year for a pro on some challenge tour events and also open qualifying. He got to local finals at Western Gailes and after 7 holes was 2 under but finished 5 over well off the mark. With the final round the next day he contemplated whether it was worth turning up. The fact we had a flight booked to following night and i had travelled up probably swayed his decision. I was amazed how many other pro's actually did not turn up to complete the final day including 1 of the 2 players in our 3 ball. It made the pain of playing out even more of a strain as we had to wait on every shot as we were quicker than the groups in front!! Just goes to show that it is rife in the game and probably will never be banished!!

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Very interesting thread and there are two very different issues being debated and possibly confused.

Not returning a card is against the rules of the handicap system, can affect the CSS and potentially therefore the handicaps of many other players in the competition. This should rightly be stamped on by the committee and repeat offenders should be suspended from competitions - end of.

Not returning a score on a hole in a medal (making the whole card what is commonly called an "NR") is, as has been pointed out often the most sensible thing to do. There should be absolutely no stigma in doing this so long as it doesn't end up being the norm. It doesn't mean you have to walk off which is obviously not good etiquette and doesn't mean you then pick up on all the other holes as the card still counts and ISN'T an automatic 0.1 as so many people seem to think. How many times have you heard someone say following a 40 point stableford score "That was with a couple of blobs too". It is quite possible to score in the buffer zone or better with an NR.

Absolutely agree. However at our club there is the 3rd kind of NR'er - the one who puts a card in, but who NR's on every hole from the bad hole onwards, irrespective of where the bad hole is. For example if his bad hole is the 9th, he then NR's for every hole on the back 9, but still puts his card in.

 

[RGDave]

Not returning a score on a hole in a medal (making the whole card what is commonly called an "NR") is, as has been pointed out often the most sensible thing to do. There should be absolutely no stigma in doing this so long as it doesn't end up being the norm. It doesn't mean you have to walk off which is obviously not good etiquette and doesn't mean you then pick up on all the other holes as the card still counts and ISN'T an automatic 0.1 as so many people seem to think.

Well put.

 

[USER1999]

Doc17, surely the groups in front let you play through as the faster group?

 

[doc17]

No way. unless someone has lost a ball and well behind it wont happen. always expect a pro event to last 5 hours!!

 

[Fyldewhite]

Very interesting thread and there are two very different issues being debated and possibly confused.

Not returning a card is against the rules of the handicap system, can affect the CSS and potentially therefore the handicaps of many other players in the competition. This should rightly be stamped on by the committee and repeat offenders should be suspended from competitions - end of.

Not returning a score on a hole in a medal (making the whole card what is commonly called an "NR") is, as has been pointed out often the most sensible thing to do. There should be absolutely no stigma in doing this so long as it doesn't end up being the norm. It doesn't mean you have to walk off which is obviously not good etiquette and doesn't mean you then pick up on all the other holes as the card still counts and ISN'T an automatic 0.1 as so many people seem to think. How many times have you heard someone say following a 40 point stableford score "That was with a couple of blobs too". It is quite possible to score in the buffer zone or better with an NR.

Absolutely agree. However at our club there is the 3rd kind of NR'er - the one who puts a card in, but who NR's on every hole from the bad hole onwards, irrespective of where the bad hole is. For example if his bad hole is the 9th, he then NR's for every hole on the back 9, but still puts his card in.

I think that's my point. If players knew that it wasn't an automatic 0.1 then they wouldn't to it. Spread the word !!

 

[Owen_Thomas_14]

I had a run of 9 straight N/Rs last year and wasnt proud of it but if your holding your group up or almost killing someone with every shot i think the best thing to do is walk in and try next week.

 

[Herbie]

I have always been an advocate of every round a golfer plays with a witness being recorded in this day and age for the fairest possible h/c assessments though most are against such an idea to the point its a non starter.

So its no surprise that I advocate every comp card being posted and the discounting of excessive hole scores when calculating h/c.

Most people who NR only do this for one or two reasons that I can think of.
1. They are embarrassed at their score.
2. They do not want any effect on their h/c either way.

What other possible reasons are there for not putting a card in....Answers on a postcard to, 'Lets talk about the red face' PO Box 123

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thing is though if you enter and NR then you go up 0.1 anyway.

 

[Herbie]

Thing is though if you enter and NR then you go up 0.1 anyway.

0.1 is the point really dont you think? next to nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[TonyN]

Would the answer be to give a 0.5 increase to those who NR or is that opening a whole new can of worms?

 

[rickg]

Would the answer be to give a 0.5 increase to those who NR or is that opening a whole new can of worms?

I like this train of thought......except, it would play into the hands of people who want their handicap to go up....they just wouldn't hand a card in.
I think if you reinforced it with warnings or suspensions for repeat offences then it just might work.

 

[didsbury_duffer]

Would the answer be to give a 0.5 increase to those who NR or is that opening a whole new can of worms?

That's opening up a can of worms, and disturbing a hornets nest at the same time. You'll then find some of the unscrupulous (otherwise known as pot-hunters) NR'ing for a few events just before Captain's Day or the Club Championship, so that they can gain a couple of shots before the big event.

 

[Imurg]

OK so make it that NR means no increase. Simples

 

[RGDave]

I have always been an advocate of every round a golfer plays with a witness being recorded in this day and age for the fairest possible h/c assessments though most are against such an idea to the point its a non starter.

I agree. If someone witnesses your play (good and bad) and signs a card, then if questions need to be asked....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I said when this was debated a fair time back that if you are going to NR for whatever reason then the fairest thing would be to do nothing. No 0.1 increase and no cut if the rest of the card was below handicap. Certainly the lack of 0.1 would stop the regular offenders or those trying to manipulate their handicap before a big event

 

[USER1999]

Sorry, this is all rubbish. N/R = 0.1 back. Deal with it. It isn't like someone has died, broken the rules, committed some huge faux pas. They lost a ball, or got stuck in some rough, blobbed the hole. What are they meant to do, commit ritual suicide? Flippin heck, should we have a gallows by every green?

People need to lighten up. An NR is no big deal.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Murph in the big scheme of things I agree but as I've mentioned we've got some guys that have NR'd three out of the last 4 comps and one has gone up as a result. I'm pretty sure on one of thise rounds he would have been cut as he was going along steadily (off 18) based ont he stableford conversion. Does that seem fair?

I totally agree that if you smack three OB, can't find a ball or hack and hack in the cabbage that blobbing the hole makes perfect sense but the problem I have is with regular offenders. A lot of us have done it and as a one off its fine but if you get in the habit it becomes second nature as soon as you blow up which sort of defeats playing a medal event in the first place

 

[Golfmmad]

If people want to NR, fine, it's up to them. When I first started playing comps, was told medal play is more difficult as you have to count EVERY shot. So you enter the medal comp knowing you have to count every shot,so why NR if you shoot a high score on a hole? Carry on and count every shot good or bad. That's what it's about isn't it, medal play?

Golfmmad.