The NHS - Decent basic nursing is what we need from it.

[Old Skier]

HID receives survey to completed Ref, NHS and GPS. HID completes survey via tinternet to save postage cost for NHS. HID receives thank you letter from NHS for completeing survey.

Public money - nobody gives a tosh. To many non medical staff in the NHS especially in areas like HR, training, finance and procurement, most aren't even qualified to do the work.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Regarding the original post I think it is much more complicated than that.
My local NHS works brilliantly.
The local GP's fund a doctors an 'on call' service based at the local A&E.
If you go to A&E with a 'non serious' emergency you are referred to the on call service within the same building.
Alternatively if you call the 'on call' service with what they deem to be an emergency they will send an ambulance toot sweet.

Bed blocking is another problem. Non serious situations, mainly with the elderly, which delay a release from hospital.
Early release is also a problem.
I think the loss of the 'cottage/recovery/local hospital/district nurse type of service has not been cost effective.

We are basically talking about 'joined up thinking'.

Unfortunately I have had very close experience with the NHS for the last 4 months and I can truthfully say my local service is quite magnificent.

 

[Tashyboy]

Watching the news last night. It pretty much summed it all up. The public when asked in a recent survey trusted Theresa May more than they trusted Jeremy Corbyn.
That in its self is what worries me, Corbyn and Labour offer no credible opposition, and I don't just mean with the NHS.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The NHS is in crisis - and what's the problem?

In 2010 NHS User Satisfaction was at an all time high. And since then - downhill all the way. To where we are today. What has gone wrong. But why? Simple answers really.

Health Tourism - that's what. The Nigerian woman - and if you are gullible or stupid enough to believe Paul Dacre than you'll believe Health Tourism - The Big Issue. Well if you believe Paul Dacre and others of his mind (who don;t live on Mars)- sort that and we're sorted - Yes?

So let's put the systems in place so that those not qualifying for free NHS treatment have to pay up front (cost?? no issue - surely). And if a trust doesn't get systems in place in time - we'll fine the Trust - that's what we'll do. Clever eh?

But watch - once we discover that Health Tourism wasn't actually the problem - what next. Foreign Aid, that's the issue. So we cut Foreign Aid - and guess what - that doesn't sort it either. Then - missed appointments - that's the problem. And so just watch - the systems are now in place so why don't we just charge everyone a refundable deposit up front - system are in place after all. No big deal. We attend our appointment we get money refunded. Hmmm. That hasn't fixed it. ah - the systems are in place - let's just charge everyone for their GP appointment - means tested of course - ah - that means the workshy and those on benefits won't get charged, hmmm.

But it's still broke - but the pay up front systems are in place. I know - privatise the service as payment systems are in place. And funds released by privatising services can go to better funding of other parts of the NHS - yes? Sorted!

Actually the answer is simple. The Tories - in coalition and by themselves are not funding the NHS to the required level - notwithstanding what Hunt and May might say - it's just funding.

And so we who pay taxes will ALL have to pay more through NI conts or our taxes. And what's good in that for those of us who are better off? Well - we'll be able to contribute even more than the poorer - and that is our social responsibility and consistent with British values of caring and compassion for those less able and poorer.

Sorted.

 

[Hobbit]

The NHS is in crisis - and what's the problem?

In 2010 NHS User Satisfaction was at an all time high. And since then - downhill all the way. To where we are today. What has gone wrong. But why? Simple answers really.

Health Tourism - that's what. The Nigerian woman - and if you are gullible or stupid enough to believe Paul Dacre than you'll believe Health Tourism - The Big Issue. Well if you believe Paul Dacre and others of his mind (who don;t live on Mars)- sort that and we're sorted - Yes?

So let's put the systems in place so that those not qualifying for free NHS treatment have to pay up front (cost?? no issue - surely). And if a trust doesn't get systems in place in time - we'll fine the Trust - that's what we'll do. Clever eh?

But watch - once we discover that Health Tourism wasn't actually the problem - what next. Foreign Aid, that's the issue. So we cut Foreign Aid - and guess what - that doesn't sort it either. Then - missed appointments - that's the problem. And so just watch - the systems are now in place so why don't we just charge everyone a refundable deposit up front - system are in place after all. No big deal. We attend our appointment we get money refunded. Hmmm. That hasn't fixed it. ah - the systems are in place - let's just charge everyone for their GP appointment - means tested of course - ah - that means the workshy and those on benefits won't get charged, hmmm.

But it's still broke - but the pay up front systems are in place. I know - privatise the service as payment systems are in place. And funds released by privatising services can go to better funding of other parts of the NHS - yes? Sorted!

Actually the answer is simple. The Tories - in coalition and by themselves are not funding the NHS to the required level - notwithstanding what Hunt and May might say - it's just funding.

And so we who pay taxes will ALL have to pay more through NI conts or our taxes. And what's good in that for those of us who are better off? Well - we'll be able to contribute even more than the poorer - and that is our social responsibility and consistent with British values of caring and compassion for those less able and poorer.

Sorted.

If it was as simple as that it would have been identified sooner and resolved by now.

1) I worked in the NHS in the 90's, and it was a mess then.
2) I worked for a supplier from '98 through to the end of 2015, during which time it improved - me leaving wasn't the reason. But, in truth, it still was in a bit of a mess. PFI's started under Blair were always a ticking time bomb, and that bomb has been added to by many more bombs.
3) Both Labour and, more recently, the Conservatives have made a mess of it. Blair's biog gives some great insights into the mess they inherited from the Cons, and the mess they handed on.
4) Vastly underfunded, and tweaking around the edges won't put it right.
5) Adding to the funding at the rate of inflation doesn't work, as technology and life expectancy increases.

Until someone either bites the bullet and provides the right funding level, or a means tested version similar to that in Ireland is adopted, it will only decline.

 

[chrisd]

If it was as simple as that it would have been identified sooner and resolved by now.

1) I worked in the NHS in the 90's, and it was a mess then.
2) I worked for a supplier from '98 through to the end of 2015, during which time it improved - me leaving wasn't the reason. But, in truth, it still was in a bit of a mess. PFI's started under Blair were always a ticking time bomb, and that bomb has been added to by many more bombs.
3) Both Labour and, more recently, the Conservatives have made a mess of it. Blair's biog gives some great insights into the mess they inherited from the Cons, and the mess they handed on.
4) Vastly underfunded, and tweaking around the edges won't put it right.
5) Adding to the funding at the rate of inflation doesn't work, as technology and life expectancy increases.

Until someone either bites the bullet and provides the right funding level, or a means tested version similar to that in Ireland is adopted, it will only decline.

I think maybe you need to add wastage and high management salaries to your list too

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

If it was as simple as that it would have been identified sooner and resolved by now.

1) I worked in the NHS in the 90's, and it was a mess then.
2) I worked for a supplier from '98 through to the end of 2015, during which time it improved - me leaving wasn't the reason. But, in truth, it still was in a bit of a mess. PFI's started under Blair were always a ticking time bomb, and that bomb has been added to by many more bombs.
3) Both Labour and, more recently, the Conservatives have made a mess of it. Blair's biog gives some great insights into the mess they inherited from the Cons, and the mess they handed on.
4) Vastly underfunded, and tweaking around the edges won't put it right.
5) Adding to the funding at the rate of inflation doesn't work, as technology and life expectancy increases.

Until someone either bites the bullet and provides the right funding level, or a means tested version similar to that in Ireland is adopted, it will only decline.

This may all be correct - but in the 1990s the NHS was not in the state it is in today - staff were not nearly as demoralised as they are today. And public satisfaction has plummetted.

23% drop last year in applications to go into nursing, 90% drop in nurses from overseas, and many tens of thousands of senior and experienced nurses bending and breaking under the pressure - and taking retirement as soon as they can in the next 5 years.

And yet the right wing press and MPs shout about Health Tourism and immigration - as if these are the simple answers to the problems with the NHS - sort them and sort the NHS! When the solution is very complex. But that doesn't stop Paul Dacre blaming a Nigerian woman who lost two babies at birth as being symptomatic of the problem the NHS faces.

No - we have to fund it. And we who can afford to will just have to pay for it.

 

[chrisd]

This may all be correct - but in the 1990s the NHS was not in the state it is in today - staff were not nearly as demoralised as they are today. And public satisfaction has plummetted.

And yet the right wing press and MPs shout about Health Tourism and immigration - as if these are the problems with the NHS =- sort them and sort the NHS!

No - we have to fund it. And we who can afford to will have to pay for it.

I don't think health tourism and immigration are the sole reasons for the demise of the NHS but they cant be ignored. I don't know how many migrants have come into the country since the 1990's but if 3m people arrive over a limited number of years then its likely that the extra pressure on the NHS, schools, police and ALL other services are going to be putting them all under severe strain

 

[Fish]

I don't think health tourism and immigration are the sole reasons for the demise of the NHS but they cant be ignored. I don't know how many migrants have come into the country since the 1990's but if 3m people arrive over a limited number of years then its likely that the extra pressure on the NHS, schools, police and ALL other services are going to be putting them all under severe strain

57.25m in 1990, 58m in 1999 but now circa 65.33m, that's a population increase of over 8 million, an average of over 3m a year but the major increases have been in the latter years, and we wonder why all our services are struggling!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

57.25m in 1990, 58m in 1999 but now circa 65.33m, that's a population increase of over 8 million, an average of over 3m a year but the major increases have been in the latter years, and we wonder why all our services are struggling!

It ain't down to Heath tourism and immigration is only marginally contributory. Aging population and better and more expensive treatments, and funding has been cut - despite what Hunt says.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Saw it all from rocking up to the walk in centre as I'm diabetic rather than use A&E directly to be told to go straight to A&E by a Stalinist receptionist. Many hours on a trolley including several in a corridor waiting for bed in Acute Medical Unit. On plus side every nurse and radiographer were ones I recruited including staff on Unit. Very pleased with my choices but had enough of the process now and feeling totally crap, not sleeping and struggling to eat anything. I want my own. Bed the bickering joviality of this place and to feel right

 

[anotherdouble]

Saw it all from rocking up to the walk in centre as I'm diabetic rather than use A&E directly to be told to go straight to A&E by a Stalinist receptionist. Many hours on a trolley including several in a corridor waiting for bed in Acute Medical Unit. On plus side every nurse and radiographer were ones I recruited including staff on Unit. Very pleased with my choices but had enough of the process now and feeling totally crap, not sleeping and struggling to eat anything. I want my own. Bed the bickering joviality of this place and to feel right

Are you back in hospital Homer or is this post recounting past event

 

[Fish]

It ain't down to Heath tourism and immigration is only marginally contributory. Aging population and better and more expensive treatments.

I haven't said it was, I was simply answering Chris when he said "but if 3m people arrive over a limited number of years then its likely that the extra pressure on the NHS, schools, police and ALL other services are struggling ", I'm simply highlighting our population has increased an average of 3m a year since 1990, not a limited number of years as he put it, but more importantly, it was only a 1m increase over a 10 year period to 1999 but then it increased by much greater margins over the latter years, why was that!

 

[Fish]

Are you back in hospital Homer or is this post recounting past event

He's back in, he was even posing pictures of his sad mush in hospital on FaceAche last night :smirk:

 

[Tashyboy]

There are many problems with the NHS and health tourism is one of them, re the Nigerian woman I watched that programme and was astounded to see what went off. For the record anyone that comes to this country would get emergency cover and still would so her case would not change with the new system. but without trying to over complicate a problem that is costing us a fortune for me the answer is quite simple. If you can afford to travel to this country you can afford travel insurance. Simples.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

He's back in, he was even posing pictures of his sad mush in hospital on FaceAche last night :smirk:

Simply remedied

 

[anotherdouble]

Hope all goes well. And at least you can still work while away from your desk. Just employ some runners

 

[Tashyboy]

Simply remedied

Having never met you Homer hope you get well soon, you might get well sooner if you pretend to be from another country. :rofl:

What about scotland, Mc Homer.

eastern Europe, Homerski.

american, Homer junior.

behave and keep contributing.👍😁

 

[Hobbit]

It ain't down to Heath tourism and immigration is only marginally contributory. Aging population and better and more expensive treatments, and funding has been cut - despite what Hunt says.

From 93 the labour increased funding to the NHS by close on and occasionally more than inflation. Sounds fantastic doesn't it? What they never said was each year they imposed a 6% efficiency saving programme. As for your it was wonderful in the 90's... I worked across 4 hospitals at that time. It was bloody awful! The number of mgt posts took off, many of which were filled by clinicians who may well be good clinicians but proved to be poor managers. Not their fault to be fair - it was like telling a plumber he had to micro manage a bunch of joiners.

As a supplier to the NHS from 98 to 2015 I saw clinicians and Civil Servants trying to make commercial decisions for the first few years, but increasingly be replaced by a new breed of commercially astute managers.

The death knell to the NHS may well come under a Tory govt, some time in the next few Parliaments, but the P.F.I.'s started by Blair are equally to blame. And Hunt as a Health Secretary is got to be the worst ever.

Have a read of Blair's biography and you will find that the main culprit for the funding gap was Brown. Brown's battle with Blair for many years over how Blair broke a promise over their original promise to each other about who would become party leader. Brown pretty much flatly refused countless requests to increase NHS funding to the levels required.

 

[SocketRocket]

It ain't down to Heath tourism and immigration is only marginally contributory. Aging population and better and more expensive treatments, and funding has been cut - despite what Hunt says.

If all these 8 million immigrants are paying their tax and NI as we are told then there should be plenty of money available. Somehow I think we have been sold a pup though.