The Next Labour leader

[harpo_72]

Time to forget them .. they need to get to the bottom before they realise

 

[stefanovic]

Next Labour leader simply needs to be someone who will make you feel welcome even if you don't come from the far left.

 

[Hacker Khan]

I dont neccessarily agree there.
I think a leader who galvanises the centre voter and offers more substance than what Trump-et will have done, when after 5 years those 40 new hospitals and 6k GP's are still "pending", would overturn the loses of this time and reverse the tables. That is of course if the left wing of the Labour party can see past their own dogmatic noses.
Personally though, I fear another "Milliband moment" coming.

I'd like to agree with you. But I think we are increasingly in an era where old rules on how you judge a parties competence and performance when you vote do not matter.

Leaders can hide from scrutiny, they can do and say stuff that in the past would have been a show stopper but now are brushed aside. They stick to one simple message and never admit they got anything wrong, I lost count of the number of times an interviewer would ask a MP to say sorry, admit something that they had done in the past was possibly the wrong call, but they never did. Parties are a lot more clever on how they target their adverts especially in social media, the line between independent newspapers and straight out party propaganda is becoming increasingly blurred. Say what you want about Cummings but he is a clever ^&^&%^ when it comes to strategy and understood a lot of this. Where as Labour seem to be mostly driven by ideological sixth form politics that is all very worthy and indeed I agree with a lot of it. But do not seem that savvy when it comes to the majority of Uk voters and how to win them over.

So I think how parties and leaders are judged and the way we judge them is changing radically.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'd like to agree with you. But I think we are increasingly in an era where old rules on how you judge a parties competence and performance when you vote do not matter.

Leaders can hide from scrutiny, they can do and say stuff that in the past would have been a show stopper but now are brushed aside. They stick to one simple message and never admit they got anything wrong, I lost count of the number of times an interviewer would ask a MP to say sorry, admit something that they had done in the past was possibly the wrong call, but they never did. Parties are a lot more clever on how they target their adverts especially in social media, the line between independent newspapers and straight out party propaganda is becoming increasingly blurred. Say what you want about Cummings but he is a clever ^&^&%^ when it comes to strategy and understood a lot of this. Where as Labour seem to be mostly driven by ideological sixth form politics that is all very worthy and indeed I agree with a lot of it. But do not seem that savvy when it comes to the majority of Uk voters and how to win them over.

So I think how parties and leaders are judged and the way we judge them is changing radically.

We’ll just have to wait and see who the media decide is sufficient.

 

[Hacker Khan]

We’ll just have to wait and see who the media decide is sufficient.

Think that's another thing us lefties or potential lefties need to accept, newspapers will be overwhelmingly pro Tory and against Labour. And whilst it is crap and needs to be highlighted, just moaning about it won't change anything so Labour need to wise up and come up with ways of circumnavigating them.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Think that's another thing us lefties or potential lefties need to accept, newspapers will be overwhelmingly pro Tory and against Labour. And whilst it is crap and needs to be highlighted, just moaning about it won't change anything so Labour need to wise up and come up with ways of circumnavigating them.

Or work with them as Blair and Campbell did. They spent a good while cultivating the media, not permanently fighting them.

 

[SocketRocket]

I'd like to agree with you. But I think we are increasingly in an era where old rules on how you judge a parties competence and performance when you vote do not matter.

Leaders can hide from scrutiny, they can do and say stuff that in the past would have been a show stopper but now are brushed aside. They stick to one simple message and never admit they got anything wrong, I lost count of the number of times an interviewer would ask a MP to say sorry, admit something that they had done in the past was possibly the wrong call, but they never did. Parties are a lot more clever on how they target their adverts especially in social media, the line between independent newspapers and straight out party propaganda is becoming increasingly blurred. Say what you want about Cummings but he is a clever ^&^&%^ when it comes to strategy and understood a lot of this. Where as Labour seem to be mostly driven by ideological sixth form politics that is all very worthy and indeed I agree with a lot of it. But do not seem that savvy when it comes to the majority of Uk voters and how to win them over.

So I think how parties and leaders are judged and the way we judge them is changing radically.

Do you not think that what we have just experienced is a re-run of what happened with Michael foot all those years ago. Labour learned a lesson after that and through a process of itteration that took them from Kinnock to Blair and subsiquent office should have been a lesson well learned.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Or work with them as Blair and Campbell did. They spent a good while cultivating the media, not permanently fighting them.

Or the media (ie BBC,) actually do their job and remain unbiased, by all means call out errors, but stay neutral.

 

[SocketRocket]

Shame Chuka Umunna (excuse spelling) left the party, he's intelligent and presentable, maybe there's a way back for him. I didn't like his second referendum obsession but rate him as a potential leader.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Or the media (ie BBC,) actually do their job and remain unbiased, by all means call out errors, but stay neutral.

The right are convinced the BBC is full of lefties, the left believe it is biased against them. Confused ?.

I agree that TV media should remain neutral and be sanctioned if not. The written media is long lost on that front but we all know that.

Labour didn't lose this election because of the media, not by a long way.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Shame Chuca left the party, he's intelligent and presentable, maybe there's a way back for him. I didn't like his second referendum obsession but rate him as a potential leader.

Had he kept his head down, ridden this era out, he could have been a great shout for leader. He would have had huge appeal to middle England. It's a shame he lost patience and has blown his career, I was a fan.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Shame Chuca left the party, he's intelligent and presentable, maybe there's a way back for him. I didn't like his second referendum obsession but rate him as a potential leader.

The likes of Chuka Umuna, the Millibands etc are part of the reason Labour has lost its heartlands. Career southern politicians parachuted into safe seats who the electorate don't identify with and to tbh vice versa. Labour concentrated for too long on that middle ground and took for granted it's heartlands

 

[SocketRocket]

The likes of Chuka Umuna, the Millibands etc are part of the reason Labour has lost its heartlands. Career southern politicians parachuted into safe seats who the electorate don't identify with and to tbh vice versa. Labour concentrated for too long on that middle ground and took for granted it's heartlands

Have you been asleep this week?

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Have you been asleep this week?

Do you actually know Chuka Umuna is a remain supporting Lib Dem career politician ?
Oh wait on SR you've stumbled on the perfect solution to all working class Labour's northern woes?

 

[SocketRocket]

Do you actually know Chuka Umuna is a remain supporting Lib Dem career politician ?
Oh wait on SR you've stumbled on the perfect solution to all working class Labour's northern woes?

Read my post, I said I accept he was a second referendum supporter but centre left which is the only way forward for labour unless they want to destroy themselves.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

The right are convinced the BBC is full of lefties, the left believe it is biased against them. Confused ?.

I agree that TV media should remain neutral and be sanctioned if not. The written media is long lost on that front but we all know that.

Labour didn't lose this election because of the media, not by a long way.

Never said they lost it because of the media, there were a few far greater reasons, but the media certainly didn’t help.

One small example:

That headline, yet when you read the article you find they found 88% of tory adverts factually incorrect and 0% Labour adverts.
Therefore that headline is misleading, why isn’t calling out the tories?

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500

 

[Hacker Khan]

Heard on a podcast today that Labour want to favour a female leader. Leaving the tedious positive discrimination arguments aside, I think it's opening up for Jess Phillips to be the leader. Not 100% convinced it will work, but as an antidote to the Eton Rifles it may be a masterstroke.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

Heard on a podcast today that Labour want to favour a female leader. Leaving the tedious positive discrimination arguments aside, I think it's opening up for Jess Phillips to be the leader. Not 100% convinced it will work, but as an antidote to the Eton Rifles it may be a masterstroke.

I think a woman on the soft left of the party could work. Any association with momentum has to go as has Blairite's. Labour has to win back it's core vote in Scotland, Wales, N England and the Midlands first. I think Angela Rayner or Jess Philip's may not be the worst outcome

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The likes of Chuka Umuna, the Millibands etc are part of the reason Labour has lost its heartlands. Career southern politicians parachuted into safe seats who the electorate don't identify with and to tbh vice versa. Labour concentrated for too long on that middle ground and took for granted it's heartlands

Err I disagree, Labour with the Marxist Momentum group swerved so far to the left that many average labour voters could not bring themselves to cast their vote for Labour.

Brexit was another huge issue, people just want it over and done with, Boris has a plan, Labour didn’t apart from more dither.

Also Labours manifesto was economically in fantasy land.

The key here is not that Boris won, the overwhelming fact is people who have never voted Tory before, did, as they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Corbyn

 

[Hacker Khan]

Never said they lost it because of the media, there were a few far greater reasons, but the media certainly didn’t help.

One small example:
View attachment 28767
That headline, yet when you read the article you find they found 88% of tory adverts factually incorrect and 0% Labour adverts.
Therefore that headline is misleading, why isn’t calling out the tories?

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50726500

Trouble is you fall down the rabbit hole of thinking Laura Kuenssberg is part of Tory HQ as the people you follow are convinced of it and you see bias in everything. For example Kuenberg tweeted something about Boris potentially getting a 'decent' majority' and momentum twitter lost their **** as she used the word 'decent'. As they saw it is meaning 'a good thing he has a majority' rather than meaning 'large'.

I agree that her and a few others (Peston for example) have not had a great election and have essentially been used by the tories on occasions when labour activists have allegedly punched minsters aids. But I think it more down to them getting used to the new political way of operating rather then them being closet tories, and people often confuse the messenger with the message. And if the momentum types just get convinced that they are the enemy then they won't get anywhere.