The Next Labour leader

[Wolf]

the labour leader is voted on by the party members and from what i've been told the majority want a more left wing labour, i can't see that changing.

As is every parties leader. I fear your right though from reports this morning showing that "momentum" are going nowhere and believe they're are doing things right and that it was purely brexits fault. Obviously that had a big impact but look how many candidates have already thrown Corbyn under the bus saying it was his fault and nothing else.

Whatever happens its a long road back and now we have 5 years of waiting to see what happens under Boris and Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

That's my point though in my last sentence. Labour don't seem to know their audience, the polls have proven that along with all the in fighting they currently have.

Sorry yes I misread that, just very poor all round

 

[chrisd]

What i can't quite get is why Corbyn got 40% in 2017 (not so long ago) and had crowds singing his name, yet 2.5 years later despite appearing to be the same bloke, many voters deserted him. Tory Govt has been pretty terrible during that intervening period too.

What changed so much?

seems Tory PR machine got it's anti Corbyn message through better this time somehow.

Frustrated Leave voters in Labour working class areas seems to be the difference as Conservatives have loads more seats without much of an increase in overall vote share since 2017.

May was the worst PM ever and ran a very poor GE. Corbyn promised much less in 2017, and possibly deliverable changes, than his promises this time that would bust the country. The conservatives majored on how bad for security Corbyn is and also the lack of a cohesive Brexit plan hat eventually did for Labour

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

authenticity of what? what do the labour party stand for currently and what is their identity? far left or centre left as they cant be both as theyve comfortably proven

At the very outset the Labour Party offer is actually now irrelevant.

An authentic voice - especially for those of the midlands and north - is for me someone like Lisa Nandy. She talks clearly, steadily, thoughtfully and without hesitancy. I think she could look me in the eye and ask me what I need from her and I would listen - and then she would tell me that she understands what I am saying - but she would not tell me what I need from Labour. I think she could tell me what she stood for, and I think I might give her time to get my trust - I would not have to have her tell me the answers to my problems - but I would hear her and I would draw my own conclusions.

 

[fundy]

At the very outset the Labour Party offer is actually now irrelevant.

An authentic voice - especially for those of the midlands and north - is for me someone like Lisa Nandy. She talks clearly, steadily, thoughtfully and without hesitancy. I think she could look me in the eye and ask me what I need from her and I would listen - and then she would tell me that she understands what I am saying - but she would not tell me what I need from Labour. I think she could tell me what she stood for, and I think I might give her time to get my trust - I would not have to have her tell me the answers to my problems - but I would hear her and I would draw my own conclusions.

what do you want her to stand for? what do you think Labour should be going forward?

 

[Foxholer]

That was absolutely pathetic. Less squabbles in a primary school playground!

Notwithstanding the, perhaps, dodgy grammar, I totally agree!

Mind you. Had it been the Tories that had lost (never a possibility) a similar 'spat' would undoubtedly have happened, but it would have been held behind closed doors!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

what do you want her to stand for? what do you think Labour should be going forward?

It is not for me to say what she (or any Labour leader) should stand for - other than a fair society - fair for us all and supporting and prioritising those who need it most.

I am not who she needs to convince. If she gets the support of the most needy and those from the post-industrial towns that Labour have lost - then she gets my support.

I have wealth (assets) out of reach of the vast majority of the UK (good pensions and owning my own home in Surrey). I do not need much at all from government, and I am happy to contribute more.

It really is not about me or for me to decide what others need.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

So annoyed by Labour letting so many down I think I might go and join my local Labour Party. Labour has got to change and that change has to start now. Corbyn has to go - take McDonnell with him. Unfortunately Momentum seem to have such a grip - and I already hear the call go out - It was Brexit. The policies are popular. I dunno.

Some certainly are. With Brexit out of the way maybe there is opportunity for another leader to come in; listen and find out the few key things that their lost support desperately seeks (not what you think they need) - and focus just on these few things; Oppose the Conservatives on policy specifically related to the key concerns - and highlight their failings when they arise; become an intelligent Opposition and over time develop into a credible alternative. Then next time focus on where the government has not delivered on these key things, and explain why it need not be like that - how and why it can be different with Labour. Then with humility ask for public support.

It seems a long trek - but every long journey starts with one footstep - you don't eat an elephant in one go - you eat it one mouthful at a time. You just have to start.

There is much in what you say, and there is also much in what you haven't said!
The Labour Party need not only to identify and oppose bad Tory policies, they need to identify those bad Labour policies and activities and attitudes etc , and ditch them.
And that includes the preponderance of politically correct demands and attitudes that results in decent people being hounded for alternative reasonable views in a manner which denies too quickly the right of free speech. You cannot deny that free speech is being attacked now in a country that used to pride itself on such a virtue.
I think a lot of people voted against Labour with such thoughts in mind.

 

[Hobbit]

There is much in what you say, and there is also much in what you haven't said!
The Labour Party need not only to identify and oppose bad Tory policies, they need to identify those bad Labour policies and activities and attitudes etc , and ditch them.
And that includes the preponderance of politically correct demands and attitudes that results in decent people being hounded for alternative reasonable views in a manner which denies too quickly the right of free speech. You cannot deny that free speech is being attacked now in a country that used to pride itself on such a virtue.
I think a lot of people voted against Labour with such thoughts in mind.

I'd like to add something to the above list. For those supporters of Labour that think that its ok to use vile language in identifying opponents, they just look like loutish thugs.

Robust debate, even to the extent of things like arrogant, selfish, greedy, fine crack on with that. But how many Labour candidates were verbally abused in the streets with the vilest language and barely contained fury? Barely a one that I have heard of. And how have some of the Labour supporters behaved to some Tory candidates?

Do I want to vote for a left of centre, socialist (not Marxist) Labour party? Yes I do. Do I want to be associated with loutish thugs? No.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There is much in what you say, and there is also much in what you haven't said!
The Labour Party need not only to identify and oppose bad Tory policies, they need to identify those bad Labour policies and activities and attitudes etc , and ditch them.
And that includes the preponderance of politically correct demands and attitudes that results in decent people being hounded for alternative reasonable views in a manner which denies too quickly the right of free speech. You cannot deny that free speech is being attacked now in a country that used to pride itself on such a virtue.
I think a lot of people voted against Labour with such thoughts in mind.

There is much to be said for dropping some politically correct 'demands' as they can be blown up out of all proportion; used to stir up unnecessary anger and get in the way of discussion of serious issues.

But I believe that the truth is that most of us are not at all constrained or impacted in our lives by political correctness - and if we feel angry or frustrated by what we perceive to be such, then we should stop a moment and reflect upon our emotions and why we are getting annoyed. Because I suspect that we all know that our anger and frustration is simply that of a small child not getting what it wants and making a noisy fuss.

I don't know of any times that I have felt that I could not express a view without fear of being hounded - but many clearly do. But again. I simply ask whether the views are being expressed to any end, or simply because we feel we can express them - that we have a right to do so.

And as is evident from the forum, there is much said at times about my faith and beliefs that I could well get upset about - and I could complain to the mods about. But I don't. And that is the other side of the coin - much Political Correctness is by some on behalf of others.

I don't need anyone to stand up for me here (it's nice when it happens ); I don't need anyone thinking that what is being said might upset me. I can be the judge of that. And the truth is I just let it all go (though I push back on misrepresentation). Political Correctness is for me simply looking out for others. And that is important. But we can all go too far in doing that; sometimes we don't need to; sometimes we do. It's a balance.

 

[drdel]

^^^ I'm having great difficulty with relating the above moans to the question posed by the thread's title...

 

[Wolf]

^^^ I'm having great difficulty with relating the above moans to the question posed by the thread's title...

You're not the only, no relevance to it at all.

 

[Imurg]

I know threads wander a bit but this one's turned left at the traffic lights...

 

[drdel]

I know threads wander a bit but this one's turned left at the traffic lights...

Left or Right would have been good but I think Labour was too busy looking in the rear view mirror to see they were at a 'T' junction.

Perhaps they'll ask Gina Miller as she's got some spare time.

 

[patricks148]

if they want to appeal to the masses, someone under 60, can head a football or have a kick around with some young scamps on the local field, have a youngish family for those all important Photo Opps... someone who's never done anything that can be dragged up from 30 years ago Oh get themsleves a silly slogan.... and def not a Socialist.. sorted

 

[Hobbit]

I know threads wander a bit but this one's turned left at the traffic lights...

I wonder who the driving instructor was?

 

[harpo_72]

What i can't quite get is why Corbyn got 40% in 2017 (not so long ago) and had crowds singing his name, yet 2.5 years later despite appearing to be the same bloke, many voters deserted him. Tory Govt has been pretty terrible during that intervening period too.

What changed so much?

seems Tory PR machine got it's anti Corbyn message through better this time somehow.

Frustrated Leave voters in Labour working class areas seems to be the difference as Conservatives have loads more seats without much of an increase in overall vote share since 2017.

That’s last bit is the answer, they were impatient and wanted to leave. It doesn’t bode too well, but time will tell.
I wonder whether they will live to regret that decision? But in the end who cares they have made a choice and we will all live with it.

 

[Imurg]

I wonder who the driving instructor was?

It wasn't me, I wasn't there, you can't prove a thing........

 

[clubchamp98]

I wonder who the driving instructor was?

Probably Putin will get the blame!

Corbyn offered things the public knew he could not achieve.
Remember British rail. British Leyland.
The public are not stupid.

 

[drdel]

I wonder who the driving instructor was?

They obviously had too much 'momentum'...