The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[Voyager EMH]

The adage is, "You drive for show and you putt for dough".

This is about winning money, or in our case as amateurs, merely winning.
It is not about sustained improvements over a time period.

Here is an example of me winning pro-shop credit over five consecutive comps.

Round number 2 was a weekday comp with 49 entrants and I won it with 38 points.
Note the three consecutive birdies - holes 9 and 10 are shortish par-4s where I did not hit driver from the tee!
Hole 11 is a very short par-3 where shots of great length have no significance.

I scored seven 2s over the five rounds to give me plenty of credit (dough) in the pro-shop by holing those putts.



I will continue to putt for dough - thank you very much.

 

[Bdill93]

This debate will go on for the rest of time.

Consistency is king IMO.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Length is far more than driving. Whatever your course, you will gain. You can play a hybrid from the tee and still put it 230, without the driver. Then you are hitting a 9 instead of a 7. Your chances of hitting the green, and probable distance to hole are improved. You are gaining shots. Your score is lowering.

Yes you are correct and that is exactly how a smart player thinks but people have said in this debate you should always hit driver because the closer you are to the hole the lower your scores will be

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The adage is, "You drive for show and you putt for dough".

This is about winning money, or in our case as amateurs, merely winning.
It is not about sustained improvements over a time period.

Here is an example of me winning pro-shop credit over five consecutive comps.

Round number 2 was a weekday comp with 49 entrants and I won it with 38 points.
Note the three consecutive birdies - holes 9 and 10 are shortish par-4s where I did not hit driver from the tee!
Hole 11 is a very short par-3 where shots of great length have no significance.

I scored seven 2s over the five rounds to give me plenty of credit (dough) in the pro-shop by holing those putts.

View attachment 47747

I will continue to putt for dough - thank you very much.

As I said before. The discussion is about the importance of the long game over putting.

But, if you hadn’t hit good approach shots you wouldn’t be putting for a 2!

 

[Deleted member 31467]

This debate will go on for the rest of time.

Consistency is king IMO.

Yes you are right, it will. And the best thing about it is that higher handicappers are telling lower guys how to improve

 

[Backsticks]

Yes you are correct and that is exactly how a smart player thinks but people have said in this debate you should always hit driver because the closer you are to the hole the lower your scores will be

They havent, or that is too simplistic an understanding.

It is clear that one should play shorter if it specifically takes a strong risk of hazard or penalty shots out of play.

Yes, play a 200 yd shot rather than a 230yd one if the longer one might run on into a stream. But when landing 200 or 230 presents equal risk, always hit the longer. In this case, do not club back with an idea of safety, or, better in the fairway than the rough. The improved chances of putting it in the fairway are insignificant, and do not justify sacrificing the overall gain of the longer shot.

Some of the old dragons are tough to slay...

 

[Voyager EMH]

As I said before. The discussion is about the importance of the long game over putting.

But, if you hadn’t hit good approach shots you wouldn’t be putting for a 2!

Good shots they were, yes.
But not particularly long.
I am generally using a much stronger lofted club on these par-3s than players with a similar handicap to me. Vast majority are younger and stronger than me.
They hit it further than me, but don't make as many 2s. - THIS IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T PUTT TO MY STANDARD.
Their advantage kicks in on the long par-4s and par-5s.

If they could putt better, their handicaps would be lower.
They drive for show and I putt for dough - thank you very much.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

They havent, or that is too simplistic an understanding.

It is clear that one should play shorter if it specifically takes a strong risk of hazard or penalty shots out of play.

Yes, play a 200 yd shot rather than a 230yd one if the longer one might run on into a stream. But when landing 200 or 230 presents equal risk, always hit the longer. In this case, do not club back with an idea of safety, or, better in the fairway than the rough. The improved chances of putting it in the fairway are insignificant, and do not justify sacrificing the overall gain of the longer shot.

Some of the old dragons are tough to slay...

You said it yourself in posts 24, 33 and 230 and I gave up looking any further after that point through boredom.

 

[Springveldt]

Yes you are right, it will. And the best thing about it is that higher handicappers are telling lower guys how to improve

Happens in all sports. I don't think Alex Ferguson was a better player than Ronaldo yet he was telling him how to play the game. I watch Claude Harmon on the practice area telling DJ how to play the game.

Just because someone doesn't have the physical ability to put into practice what would improve them doesn't mean we should just be ignoring them, especially when there is a mountain of data to back them up.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Happens in all sports. I don't think Alex Ferguson was a better player than Ronaldo yet he was telling him how to play the game. I watch Claude Harmon on the practice area telling DJ how to play the game.

Just because someone doesn't have the physical ability to put into practice what would improve them doesn't mean we should just be ignoring them, especially when there is a mountain of data to back them up.

There is a world of difference between trained/qualified coaches and people that rock up at the club once a week.

 

[RichA]

There is a world of difference between trained/qualified coaches and people that rock up at the club once a week.

But you're not going to remark on the difference between yourself and DJ?
Humble.

 

[Orikoru]

This debate will go on for the rest of time.

Consistency is king IMO.

Yup. Consistently long for the win.

 

[Zakkker]

The adage is, "You drive for show and you putt for dough".

This is about winning money, or in our case as amateurs, merely winning.
It is not about sustained improvements over a time period.

Here is an example of me winning pro-shop credit over five consecutive comps.

Round number 2 was a weekday comp with 49 entrants and I won it with 38 points.
Note the three consecutive birdies - holes 9 and 10 are shortish par-4s where I did not hit driver from the tee!
Hole 11 is a very short par-3 where shots of great length have no significance.
I would also like to recommend that you take a little break from the humdrum of everyday life. There is a website where I can register and get €10 to play. The prerequisite is that you only have to register. You have to try this website, I like it. There you can also see some pages where you can play without making a deposit at all, I sometimes try them.
I scored seven 2s over the five rounds to give me plenty of credit (dough) in the pro-shop by holing those putts.

View attachment 47747

I will continue to putt for dough - thank you very much.

Good result, I wouldn't have been able to do it that way.

 

[Zakkker]

Happens in all sports. I don't think Alex Ferguson was a better player than Ronaldo yet he was telling him how to play the game. I watch Claude Harmon on the practice area telling DJ how to play the game.

Just because someone doesn't have the physical ability to put into practice what would improve them doesn't mean we should just be ignoring them, especially when there is a mountain of data to back them up.

I agree. But the problem is that more successful people think it would be beneath their dignity to listen to someone else's opinion. Especially if it is the opinion of someone without much achievement. But does good advice depend on achievement? A person on the outside may see things differently, and that should be used.

 

[Jason.H]

Shefflers putter wasn’t hot the last 2 days and he missed out

 

[Imurg]

Shefflers putter wasn’t hot the last 2 days and he missed out

My putter was hot yesterday and I didn't miss out....

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Anyone in world golf, top 20 for example, that wouldn't be classed as big off the tee? No Zac Johnson's any more. Even Fitzpatrick, previously in the short category, trained to lengthen up and suddenly broke through to the very top echelons.

The phrase is dated now. To win you need an all round good game but without length you aren't in the modern game at pro level.

 

[bobmac]

For most high handicappers, it is not that difficult to get longer.
The equating of hit-it-longer with hit-it-wilder, deters many high hcs from actually trying to hit it further, and they are trapped in 'careful' inhibited swings that are harming rather than helping their overall distance, dispersion, and consistency.

So how much has your h/cap dropped with your increased distance, you must be scratch or there abouts?

Even then, I’d bet money that if they got a set of superspeed sticks and swung then as hard as they can 3 times a week for 8 weeks that their swing speed would be faster and they would be hitting the ball further at the end of it, regardless of their age.

If someone like me can gain speed by doing nothing extra but that I’m sure others can too.

Same question

 

[Orikoru]

So how much has your h/cap dropped with your increased distance, you must be scratch or there abouts?


Same question

@Springveldt already answered it a few pages ago.

The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

I believe a vast number of amateurs could lower their handicap by one shot or more by improving their putting. Give me a typical 28-handicapper and let me take all his putts and we would be a 26-handicapper or better. That is my observational experience. It is not "difficult" to improve putting...

forums.golfmonthly.com

The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

How are you getting that extra distance off the tee? 1) increased clubhead speed through gym work or swingsticks? 2) Improved centreness of strike, meaning the ball is generally going further and straighter (hence further if it’s bouncing on the short stuff and not long rough) with a similar...

forums.golfmonthly.com

(Ignore the preview as it gives you the wrong post, weirdly.)

 

[Springveldt]

So how much has your h/cap dropped with your increased distance, you must be scratch or there abouts?


Same question

I answered a few pages back but I've just went and checked my handicap history to make sure. I took up the game again in 2016 and my first congu handicap was 15.

I bought them towards then end of the 2019 season and by that time I was an 9.2 index under congu. In those 4 season getting from 15 to 9 I practiced a ton and took a bunch of lessons. I'd be at the range twice a week on top of playing 2 rounds a week (sometimes 3 times per week in the first couple of years). Currently I'm at 4.1 (course handicap 5, same course) so I'm 4 shots better than back then. I haven't had a lesson in that time and as I've already said I don't practice just play 2 rounds per week, a lot of them without any warmup, just get on the tee and see what I've got.

Now I didn't stick to the speed training, I do it sporadically and I've never done gym work with it either. When I first got them I did the first level, so 7 weeks or so and saw a decent jump probably around 8mph clubhead speed and my ball speed when from low 140's to low 150's, so not all of the club speed was transferred to ball speed. Level 2 required swings on your knees and I just couldn't be bothered with trying them in the garden, in the mud in winter/spring and I was happy with the extra distance. Since that first time I normally do then for a couple of weeks in April and find that brings me back to over 100mph driver speed.

This year I'm on week 3 and I'm actually going to continue and I'm doing some other work, mainly just stretching now but plan on getting my fat ass back into a gym at some point as well. I need to get healthier but at the same time I'm also curious to see if I can get faster and if that will bring my handicap down. As it stands in my current condition I think I've hit my ceiling, I don't feel I could get lower than currently unless I make some changes, get fitter and some extra distance so I can reach par 5's in two comfortably.