The great drive for dough putt for show debate thread.

[Bobthesock]

230-240 isn't short for a single figure, especially at this time of year if the ground hasn't dried out and it's still cold unless you are at scratch or there abouts.

It isn't just 20 yards on drives though, you will gain distance on your irons as well. Imagine a 420 yard par 4 and currently you driver 240 and a left with a 4 or 5 iron in for the other 180. Now look at it like you drive 260 but that 160 is now a 7 iron iron. Over the balance of a season, what is going to net you better birdie opportunities, a drive and 5 iron or a drive and 7 iron?

It was a links and it was running a bit. Average carry on trackman is 210-220. Maximum I've had is 230.
On a parkland course I definitely agree the extra would help.
I'm not denying that hitting a 7 iron would be marginally better but not as big a difference as cutting down on 3 putts.
I have got some speedsticks and going to use them properly this year so will be interesting to see if it does anything.
No doubt I'll gain yards but forget how to chip and stay the same

 

[clubchamp98]

So you do use statistics

No I use my legs. Pacing things out.
spent years practicing to yardage flags on the practice ground.
How is that using stats.?

 

[clubchamp98]

That would be a mean distance with statistical known long/short probability about that then ? Allowing you to judge a hazard carry distance with 2 standard deviations say ?

No I just laser it then hit the appropriate club to carry it.
If I can’t carry it by 10yds I will lay up.

 

[sunshine]

No I use my legs. Pacing things out.
spent years practicing to yardage flags on the practice ground.
How is that using stats.?

You are collecting and analysing data, and then using it to draw conclusions. That's what statistics is.

I find it amusing that some posters are dismissive of statistics when playing golf is heavily reliant on statistics. Whether it's understanding carry distance of an 8 iron or calculating PCC.

 

[bobmac]

You are collecting and analysing data, and then using it to draw conclusions. That's what statistics is.

I find it amusing that some posters are dismissive of statistics when playing golf is heavily reliant on statistics. Whether it's understanding carry distance of an 8 iron or calculating PCC.

I would suggest there's a difference between using your own data and data obtained from other people.

 

[clubchamp98]

You are collecting and analysing data, and then using it to draw conclusions. That's what statistics is.

I find it amusing that some posters are dismissive of statistics when playing golf is heavily reliant on statistics. Whether it's understanding carry distance of an 8 iron or calculating PCC.

I have not collected any data apart from what’s in my head.
if that’s counted as data fair enough ,but not in my world.

I play golf , stats mean nothing to me.

 

[Backsticks]

I have not collected any data apart from what’s in my head.
if that’s counted as data fair enough ,but not in my world.

I play golf , stats mean nothing to me.

The English language works best when we all accept the agreed definitions rather than versions that are only in our own worlds.

 

[Backsticks]

I would suggest there's a difference between using your own data and data obtained from other people.

I would agree on this. One's own data is an isolated sample of one though. When larger data sets are used, a much richer understanding and learning can be achieved.

 

[Backsticks]

No I use my legs. Pacing things out.
spent years practicing to yardage flags on the practice ground.
How is that using stats.?

Because all of those years pacing are how you arrived at a range and distribution for any given club and shot type. And, assessing the probabilities of a shot facing you, you select the shot you judge having the highest probability of working out for you. Thats a lot going on there - you are a natural and skilled user of statistics ! You are like the bourgeois gentilhomme, realising he has been speaking prose all his life.

 

[bobmac]

I would agree on this. One's own data is an isolated sample of one though. When larger data sets are used, a much richer understanding and learning can be achieved.

Why would Clubchamp98 want or need a larger set of data to form a richer understanding of how far he hits the ball?

 

[clubchamp98]

Because all of those years pacing are how you arrived at a range and distribution for any given club and shot type. And, assessing the probabilities of a shot facing you, you select the shot you judge having the highest probability of working out for you. Thats a lot going on there - you are a natural and skilled user of statistics ! You are like the bourgeois gentilhomme, realising he has been speaking prose all his life.

FFS.
All that data you have has addled your brain.
I have never read so much Bullshit in my life.

If I have 150yds no wind it’s a 7 iron .
any wind could be 8 could be 6 that’s how I play.

 

[clubchamp98]

The English language works best when we all accept the agreed definitions rather than versions that are only in our own worlds.

I don’t agree.
in my world my version is the only one!

 

[Voyager EMH]

The English language works best when we all accept the agreed definitions rather than versions that are only in our own worlds.

‘There’s glory for you!’

‘I don’t know what you mean by “glory,”’ Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. ‘Of course you don’t—till I tell you. I meant “there’s a nice knock-down argument for you!”’

‘But “glory” doesn’t mean “a nice knock-down argument,”’ Alice objected.

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.’

 

[Hobbit]

I think there’s elements of this discussion that are getting too sterile. I feel it’s an almost pointless discussion to talk about a 260yd drive when, on the next tee, I might only hit it 240yds. And the next one goes 220yds and into the rough. The score is the statistic that is most relevant. It’s the score we chase, not the 260yd drive that might be 240yds off the next tee. It’s about managing the whole game, and it’s the whole game that determines the score.

I might have a few brilliant holes, 250yds off the tee leaving a short iron into the green and maybe a birdie or two. On the next hole I might be 220yds and into the rough. And then there’s the game management choice to make.. try and muscle a 6-7 iron out of a scabby lie and maybe get on or very close, or do I wedge out to 90yds then try and stiff a 56* wedge in close?

I think I’d argue that it is game management over 18 holes that saves more shots than a 260yd drive gains.

 

[TigerTime]

I'm looking forward to all the tales of woe after the forum H4H day at Hankley this year. Good luck smashing the ball 200 yards out of the heather

You of course, realise that not everyone who hits it long has an unplayable second shot?

Stuck in your old ways. The game has changed.

 

[Backsticks]

I am surprised at the number of people who are still even considering alternative answers on this, although two related debates have been interweaving through this thread : is it putting or driving that determines your level of golf, or which of putting or driving has the greater influence on your score on a given day, and whether you will win that day.
Clearly, whatever your hc, a golden day when it seems the putter cannot fail adds up to a lot of strokes gained versus the field in a handicapped competition. So you may win.

But also, driving distance (with accompanying irons, woods distance) is fundamentally what determines your golfing level, and so how you will rank in your gross score. The further you can hit it, the more likely you are to win by this measure. The further you can hit it, the better the golfer you will be.

Its surprising that on the second element people are still looking for an answer at all. The answer is known beyond contest.
Another short summary (with stats !), on that point :

Is it better to hit your driver straighter or further?

Improving your average golf driver distance is extremely popular at the moment. But is this the most beneficial way to lower your scores?

www.nationalclubgolfer.com

 

[TigerTime]

A lot of people here are missing the point completely also.

Golf is obviously a game of different skills. You can lower your handicap by getting better at putting and short game. You can also lower your handicap through increasing distance.

I played in an open the other week with a guy who was driving the ball 280+ off the tee with driver. He would then flick a wedge into most greens or have a small chip. Then he would 3 putt a lot. 9 handicap. - For this golfer, the obvious way for him to lower his handicap would be to work on his putting. He could, if he put the work in on his putting, be much lower than 9.

I regularly play with a guy who drives the ball 200, has solid iron game and is a decent putter - 14 handicap. What lets him down, is a lack of distance. He hits most of his clubs very well but they don't go far enough for him to reach greens or off the tee to leave him a shorter distance in. For him, the obvious thing is to add distance through speed training and gym work, which would lower his handicap dramatically.

The data doesn't lie. Those who hit the ball further score lower on average. That's a fact. The main point for me is the untapped potential. Could you imagine how good at the game someone who hits a ball 280+ off a tee could be, if they worked on their short game? If they're already good with short game and putting then they would probably be off scratch or thereabouts instead of lingering in the high single figures. Or if the person who is just a steady player hitting it 220 every time if they added a little bit of speed? That speed would be the difference between them being a 14 and single figures.


It's all relative to the individual and the individual's skillset. Most of us could make gains across the board - distance/speed, strike, technique, putting, short game etc. It's for you to find out what area of your game would make the biggest difference in lowering your scores.

 

[clubchamp98]

A lot of people here are missing the point completely also.

Golf is obviously a game of different skills. You can lower your handicap by getting better at putting and short game. You can also lower your handicap through increasing distance.

I played in an open the other week with a guy who was driving the ball 280+ off the tee with driver. He would then flick a wedge into most greens or have a small chip. Then he would 3 putt a lot. 9 handicap. - For this golfer, the obvious way for him to lower his handicap would be to work on his putting. He could, if he put the work in on his putting, be much lower than 9.

I regularly play with a guy who drives the ball 200, has solid iron game and is a decent putter - 14 handicap. What lets him down, is a lack of distance. He hits most of his clubs very well but they don't go far enough for him to reach greens or off the tee to leave him a shorter distance in. For him, the obvious thing is to add distance through speed training and gym work, which would lower his handicap dramatically.

The data doesn't lie. Those who hit the ball further score lower on average. That's a fact. The main point for me is the untapped potential. Could you imagine how good at the game someone who hits a ball 280+ off a tee could be, if they worked on their short game? If they're already good with short game and putting then they would probably be off scratch or thereabouts instead of lingering in the high single figures. Or if the person who is just a steady player hitting it 220 every time if they added a little bit of speed? That speed would be the difference between them being a 14 and single figures.


It's all relative to the individual and the individual's skillset. Most of us could make gains across the board - distance/speed, strike, technique, putting, short game etc. It's for you to find out what area of your game would make the biggest difference in lowering your scores.

Agree with this .
But some people just don’t want to put the time in.
They just enjoy playing golf and stats don’t mean a thing to them.

Imo you need both.
as you say it’s no good bombing it off the tee if you three putt all the time.

 

[Orikoru]

I regularly play with a guy who drives the ball 200, has solid iron game and is a decent putter - 14 handicap. What lets him down, is a lack of distance. He hits most of his clubs very well but they don't go far enough for him to reach greens or off the tee to leave him a shorter distance in. For him, the obvious thing is to add distance through speed training and gym work, which would lower his handicap dramatically.

Wait.. I don't remember playing with you?

 

[TigerTime]

Agree with this .
But some people just don’t want to put the time in.
They just enjoy playing golf and stats don’t mean a thing to them.

Imo you need both.
as you say it’s no good bombing it off the tee if you three putt all the time.

That's it. Put the work in on your weak areas and you'll shoot lower scores and lower your handicap. A lot of low hanging fruit there for people whatever part of the game you decide to work on.