The Footie Thread

[RichA]

I don’t think there is a great deal between the three players that you mention when it comes to football ability. But when it comes to attitude. Bellinghams stinks. He has a horrible Real Madrid attitude in him which he brings to the England camp. The ironic thing is that Southgate brought the players together, there never seemed to be a problem with them as a group and yet Bellingham seems to have not learned from that.
Ironically it was explained why Bellingham was brought off. He was on a yellow card and another would have seen him miss early games in the World Cup, similar to Ronaldo. Now if Tuchel had not brought him off and Bellingham gets another yellow or red, Tuchel is going to get roasted.
I would be tempted to let Bellingham sit at home for a bit. Got to say Tuchel has handles it well though.

Bellingham seems to think he's undroppable and unsubbable - Ronaldo style.
He's no Pele. Players like that are dangerous for the long-term health of their team and he needs putting in his place. He's good, but only as a rotatable player in a very strong midfield. Not sure he thinks he's a player that fits into partnerships.

 

[Orikoru]

Not sure why the English generally always see arrogance as a bad thing. All the greatest footballers in recent history have had it, it pretty much.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Bellingham seems to think he's undroppable and unsubbable - Ronaldo style.
He's no Pele. Players like that are dangerous for the long-term health of their team and he needs putting in his place. He's good, but only as a rotatable player in a very strong midfield. Not sure he thinks he's a player that fits into partnerships.

He is the player he thinks he is and has proven it on the biggest stage , he is a world class player , the best midfielder England have

 

[Swango1980]

Is the shout of Bellingham being world class an over exaggeration? Sure, I agree the start of his career went really well, and he has done well in Madrid (albeit in a league, everyone also says most of the other teams are Mickey Mouse, so I guess it depends on what argument youy want to make).

Yes, he is a good player, and has the potential to be excellent. But, from memory, England were so boring in their last major tournament, despite getting to final. I don't remember Bellingham playing well at all, generally. He was extremely quiet, apart from the one moment where he scored the overhead kick to beat Slovakia.

To me, Bellingham showed huge promise at the very start of his England career. I thought he would quickly become the worlds best player. But, over the last 2 or 3 years, he hasn't really impressed me at all when playing for England. Perhaps this is why Tuchel could actually be a very good manager for England. A lot of English people might have a level of bias towards certain high profile player, over inflate their ability, and thus find it almost impossible to drop them, simply due to their reputation. Whereas Tuchel, not being English, might not really care about all that hype. And he'll just drop a high profile player if he thiks they are not actually improving the team. And best to do it early in his career, before getting into any habit of just picking players by how famous they are in the early days, and getting used to it.

 

[nickjdavis]

Not sure why the English generally always see arrogance as a bad thing. All the greatest footballers in recent history have had it, it pretty much.

Arrogance, ego, call it what you will, is all very well and, as has been pointed out previously all the very best players have it to a degree.

However, when such arrogance manifests itself as petulance, selfishness, whatever, it sends a message to the wider team that "I'm better than you so I can behave badly and get away with it"....and that needs to be stamped on...hard.

There is no doubt that Bellingham has talent in abundance, and may well go on to be one of those generational talents that is spoken about for decades to come. There is no doubt that in many scenarios he would be an automatic pick...but, he has to learn how to behave and understand that decisions are made with the best interests of the team in mind, and accept those decisions graciously.

 

[RichA]

He is the player he thinks he is and has proven it on the biggest stage , he is a world class player , the best midfielder England have

But it's a team sport.
He's good but he's one of 20+ good players in a squad, all of who should be freely swapped with replacements as necessary to make the eleven on the pitch.
He's not the heart or the brain of the team. But he seems to think that he should be both.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Is the shout of Bellingham being world class an over exaggeration? Sure, I agree the start of his career went really well, and he has done well in Madrid (albeit in a league, everyone also says most of the other teams are Mickey Mouse, so I guess it depends on what argument youy want to make).

Yes, he is a good player, and has the potential to be excellent. But, from memory, England were so boring in their last major tournament, despite getting to final. I don't remember Bellingham playing well at all, generally. He was extremely quiet, apart from the one moment where he scored the overhead kick to beat Slovakia.

To me, Bellingham showed huge promise at the very start of his England career. I thought he would quickly become the worlds best player. But, over the last 2 or 3 years, he hasn't really impressed me at all when playing for England. Perhaps this is why Tuchel could actually be a very good manager for England. A lot of English people might have a level of bias towards certain high profile player, over inflate their ability, and thus find it almost impossible to drop them, simply due to their reputation. Whereas Tuchel, not being English, might not really care about all that hype. And he'll just drop a high profile player if he thiks they are not actually improving the team. And best to do it early in his career, before getting into any habit of just picking players by how famous they are in the early days, and getting used to it.

Could argue that Rice is currently Englands best midfielder.

 

[Orikoru]

Is the shout of Bellingham being world class an over exaggeration? Sure, I agree the start of his career went really well, and he has done well in Madrid (albeit in a league, everyone also says most of the other teams are Mickey Mouse, so I guess it depends on what argument youy want to make).

Yes, he is a good player, and has the potential to be excellent. But, from memory, England were so boring in their last major tournament, despite getting to final. I don't remember Bellingham playing well at all, generally. He was extremely quiet, apart from the one moment where he scored the overhead kick to beat Slovakia.

To me, Bellingham showed huge promise at the very start of his England career. I thought he would quickly become the worlds best player. But, over the last 2 or 3 years, he hasn't really impressed me at all when playing for England. Perhaps this is why Tuchel could actually be a very good manager for England. A lot of English people might have a level of bias towards certain high profile player, over inflate their ability, and thus find it almost impossible to drop them, simply due to their reputation. Whereas Tuchel, not being English, might not really care about all that hype. And he'll just drop a high profile player if he thiks they are not actually improving the team. And best to do it early in his career, before getting into any habit of just picking players by how famous they are in the early days, and getting used to it.

People have been saying this about England's best players since the dawn of time. Plenty don't rate Kane despite him being our all-time top scorer. Plenty said Rooney underachieved. The Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham etc generation all underachieved. I think it's time we just accepted that international football is different and maybe it's more difficult to stand out. Games are usually more cagey, particularly between top teams.

 

[Neilds]

Bellingham is, no doubt, a very good footballer but - and this is a big but, is he a consistently very good player? Yes, he scored a great overhead/scissor kick in the Euros but he then milked the applause like he had won the game single handed. He could be excused his 'confidence' if he was regularly scoring goals and creating changes but this is not the case so he is nowhere near greatness in my opinion. And this is both at club level and international level.

 

[SteveW86]

In all of this, the good thing is we are having this problem. Better this way than looking at our available players and wondering who is good enough.

I don’t watch enough football at the minute to form a true opinion of who is our best 10, but Tuchel wants to play a system and he has to pick the players best suited to that. Bellingham is likely the best option at the minute, but if either his performances drop or his attitude becomes disruptive then I’m happy we have suitable alternatives

 

[Arthur Wedge]

But it's a team sport.
He's good but he's one of 20+ good players in a squad, all of who should be freely swapped with replacements as necessary to make the eleven on the pitch.
He's not the heart or the brain of the team. But he seems to think that he should be both.

All teams have the core of players that you work around England have - Pickford , Guehi , Rice , Bellingham and Kane - they should be the ones playing every major match and they are the heart of that team

Bellingham is one of the best players in the world , there aren’t many better midfielders than him , he isn’t a player that you rotate in and out

 

[Bunkermagnet]

He is the player he thinks he is and has proven it on the biggest stage , he is a world class player , the best midfielder England have

It’s ironic that you shout no player is bigger then the club when it’s to do with Liverpool (and I agree) but here you are saying a player is bigger than the National team.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It’s ironic that you shout no player is bigger then the club when it’s to do with Liverpool (and I agree) but here you are saying a player is bigger than the National team.

When did I say that Bellingham was “bigger than the national team”

Calling Bellingham one of the best midfielders in the world isn’t suggesting he is “bigger than the national team”

 

[Bunkermagnet]

When did I say that Bellingham was “bigger than the national team”

You’re inferring it because you say he’s too big to drop.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You’re inferring it because you say he’s too big to drop.

“Big” do you mean good ?no he is that good a player you having starting all the major games , baring an injuries - in the same way you have Kane or Rice or Guehi playing every major game

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Nice to see the same argument continues with the same words being posted over and again until someone gives in or rather accepts people have a differing opinion..

End of the day football is a team game it's not about the individual, the team wins you or loses you the tournament not the individual! I'd rather see the big name dropped if the overall team performs well regardless of whether that's Jude Bellingham or anyone else..

 

[Bazz]

Middlesbrough getting a manager already employment are they....

 

[Orikoru]

Nice to see the same argument continues with the same words being posted over and again until someone gives in or rather accepts people have a differing opinion..

End of the day football is a team game it's not about the individual, the team wins you or loses you the tournament not the individual! I'd rather see the big name dropped if the overall team performs well regardless of whether that's Jude Bellingham or anyone else..

This is extremely subjective though and impossible to define really. Say you leave Jude out and win 2-0 - the team performed without him. But maybe with him in you'd have won 3-0? You never know. Ultimately I think you play your best players. The name is irrelevant, but Bellingham plays for Real Madrid; if he's in form, he's clearly among our very best players, so he should start. If he's out of form or nursing an injury, then he doesn't start. It's as simple as that really.

 

[Swango1980]

All teams have the core of players that you work around England have - Pickford , Guehi , Rice , Bellingham and Kane - they should be the ones playing every major match and they are the heart of that team

Bellingham is one of the best players in the world , there aren’t many better midfielders than him , he isn’t a player that you rotate in and out

Is that like Salah at Liverpool?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

This is extremely subjective though and impossible to define really. Say you leave Jude out and win 2-0 - the team performed without him. But maybe with him in you'd have won 3-0? You never know. Ultimately I think you play your best players. The name is irrelevant, but Bellingham plays for Real Madrid; if he's in form, he's clearly among our very best players, so he should start. If he's out of form or nursing an injury, then he doesn't start. It's as simple as that really.

Who cares! In that example the game is still won without him the 3rd goal is irrelevant. The result is what matters not who played in the game.

I’ve never said he’s not among the best players in the world. I’m saying I don’t care, if he plays and plays well great if the manager deems we’re a better team with him on the bench fair play I couldn’t care less. What matters is England win with or without Bellingham!