And interestingly enough, if we go back to the original point of the chat, which of those superior players made better managers than GS?
(I know you didn't make that point, I'm not quoting you on that)
(I know you didn't make that point, I'm not quoting you on that)
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Maybe he was just naming defendersThere’s only 7 central defenders in your list! Why not a few midfield and forwards to really prove your point.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Alright misery, did you not see the emoji’s, plus the whole conversation was about Southgate who only played Central Defence and only other players mentioned before your, obviously, very serious post were other Central Defenders.Because Hobbit said "but I’d expect him to be easily in the top 10 of English defenders." So I decided to list DEFENDERS that I thought were better than Southgate. If Hobbit had said top ten "English central defenders" then I would possibly have agreed with him, although I would've given it a bit more thought than a quick list off the top of my head.
Maybe try reading what has actually been posted before trying to score cheap points.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
Apart from Sol Campbell who's had a few jobs and Gary Neville that gave it a go, have any of the others tried their hands in management?
That's a genuine question as I've got no idea.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Beat me to itBecause Hobbit said "but I’d expect him to be easily in the top 10 of English defenders." So I decided to list DEFENDERS that I thought were better than Southgate. If Hobbit had said top ten "English central defenders" then I would possibly have agreed with him, although I would've given it a bit more thought than a quick list off the top of my head.
Maybe try reading what has actually been posted before trying to score cheap points.
Paul’s had a mare here
nickjdavis
Head Pro
I hope we win....and I then hope GS seizes the opportunity to release himself from the mental strain he must surely be suffering and in turn, releases us from the purgatory we have to watch in recent months. No one would blame him if he walked away having achieved something no other England manager has managed since I was 4 months old...and in the sands of time, what we are all moaning about today, will be largely forgotten and GS would have cemented his own place in Englands football history and perhaps be talked about in the same vein as Sir Alf Ramsey (who himself was not without a huge amount of criticism during his England tenure...especially from 1970 onwards).
My biggest fear is that we "just miss out"...gallant losers in the final or maybe victims of some terrible refereeing injustice...and that spurs GS on to having one last crack at a major tournament in 2026.
My biggest fear is that we "just miss out"...gallant losers in the final or maybe victims of some terrible refereeing injustice...and that spurs GS on to having one last crack at a major tournament in 2026.
Sorry to split hairs after the fact but yes central defenders. Why would I look to compare him with full backs? Of those CF’s you’ve listed I’d put him ahead of clogger Adams, Steve Bruce, Martin Keown(was he even good enough for England?), Campbell - supertankers turned quicker.
If you go back far enough, and beyond, would any on the list be in the top 10? Who would be ahead of Bobby Moore & Terry Butcher?
And that’s part of the fun of football. The “yes he is, no he isn’t” debate.
Slime
Tour Winner
Steve Bruce managed s few clubs and, maybe, Stuart Pearce?
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
OK, fair enough. If we're only going for central defenders then from the PL era I'd go with Ferdinand, Terry, Adams and Campbell as being above him for certain. Ledley King was probably also better but injuries cursed his career. The others would be open to discussion and I could probably be convinced either way. Are there any English PL defenders that I missed from my list that should be considered?
Going back further then there's obviously Moore and Butcher but you'd also have to throw in Jack Charlton and Billy Wright.
ColchesterFC
Journeyman Pro
43 caps for England compared to 57 for Southgate.
Adams, Bruce, Pearce. The others have taken the pundit route.
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Not defensive but a player who really didn’t get played or given proper respect is Le Tissier …
It’s typical English, if your face fits irrespective of your lack of skills you get the job.
It’s typical English, if your face fits irrespective of your lack of skills you get the job.
Beezerk
Money List Winner
This thread now has me thinking, when was the last really good English manager? Venables maybe 
I don't just mean the England job more football in general.
I don't just mean the England job more football in general.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
If you think Southgate is bad, Pearce was pure purgatory whilst at City.
Ledley King was a tough one to determine. My gut says he was close on being the best of them all but, as you say, injuries ruined him. As for Jack Charlton, I did consider him but I often thought his first touch could be clumsy.
@harpo_72 also touches on the issue of “if your face fits,” and mentions Matt Le Tissier. I would take that a step further and say it’s often about which club they play for. There’s been plenty of players down the years whose performances have cried out for their inclusion but haven’t been picked but then got the dream transfer and have gone straight into the squad.
Equally, there’s been a few bang average players that have got into England squads on the back of who they play for. *dons tin hat* Phil Thompson(Liverpool), played for England plenty of times. Boringly reliable but bang average.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Problem looking back is we can get misty eyed or harsh, Venables gave us some great memories and Euro 96 was unreal, but if you look at his results prior to those Euros or even the press reports after the opening game, he really took some stick.This thread now has me thinking, when was the last really good English manager? Venables maybe
I don't just mean the England job more football in general.
Bobby Robson with Italia 90 was another great ride, but we could of gone out early in the knockouts if it wasn’t for the late goal v Belgium.
One thing for sure, despite Southgate getting us further in Comps, his style of football has been shocking.
At least with others we remember us playing good football.
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
I’ve often thought the same thing, Tony Currie was another player that springs to mind only played 17 times for England
Rlburnside
Challenge Tour Pro
The difference with Venables is that he saw what the problem was and changed it, something Southgate seems oblivious too.
I always thought the change in fortunes in Italia 90 was more player led than anything Robson done
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
I hope Southgate makes sweeping changes, goes all out attack and we lose.
Just to see the meltdown from those that have been calling for it
.
Just to see the meltdown from those that have been calling for it
.RichA
Well-known member
He's so cautious that he probably thinks we are already going all out attack.I hope Southgate makes sweeping changes, goes all out attack and we lose.
Just to see the meltdown from those that have been calling for it
