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The Footie Thread

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Swango1980 said:
Everton must have read my post above, I see they've put in a bid for Elanga
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We tried to get him on loan in January but Utd held on to him, let him get splinters for the remainder of the season. Surely Utd either sell him or loan him out this year? Keeping him to rot when the manager clearly doesn't fancy him right now makes no sense.
 
Neilds said:
Hope Man Utd fans don’t start whining mid season about the team being tired and not getting enough rest between games after their 16,000 mile pre season - which includes games in US against 2 British teams 😳
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I do tbget this argument. Seen it a few places. They are sat in luxury on a fancy plane and it's done long before the start of the season.

How does playing there make any difference to playing in Manchester?
 
DPapas1982 said:
I do tbget this argument. Seen it a few places. They are sat in luxury on a fancy plane and it's done long before the start of the season.

How does playing there make any difference to playing in Manchester?
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I remember a similar trip Liverpool did to the far east a few years ago. The club official interviewed was very open about why. It’s all about accessing new markets for merchandising and sponsorship. In footballing terms it achieves very little.
 
DPapas1982 said:
I do tbget this argument. Seen it a few places. They are sat in luxury on a fancy plane and it's done long before the start of the season.

How does playing there make any difference to playing in Manchester?
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If managers controlled pre season do you think they would want their players on a 16hr flight before they even reached their destination. Even in 1st class, never had the pleasure, flying long haul must surely be draining still?

If it's to the far east it is currently hot and very humid, so pretty poor conditions for training and playing. If it is to the US it is similar, perhaps not quite as humid, depending on where.

All in all, not what the manager would want if given free reign. The real work for them will begin when they return.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
If managers controlled pre season do you think they would want their players on a 16hr flight before they even reached their destination. Even in 1st class, never had the pleasure, flying long haul must surely be draining still?

If it's to the far east it is currently hot and very humid, so pretty poor conditions for training and playing. If it is to the US it is similar, perhaps not quite as humid, depending on where.

All in all, not what the manager would want if given free reign. The real work for them will begin when they return.
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If managers had the choice, would they ban their players from going on holiday before pre-season, if it requires a 16hr flight?

I'm not sure how draining a long flight in first class is? I'd imagine they'd spend most of it sleeping, on a flat bed?
 
Swango1980 said:
If managers had the choice, would they ban their players from going on holiday before pre-season, if it requires a 16hr flight?

I'm not sure how draining a long flight in first class is? I'd imagine they'd spend most of it sleeping, on a flat bed?
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Holiday isn't pre season though is it? Pre season is back to work, back to training.

No idea, in terms of your next question. I've done long haul in cattle class and it was very draining and fairly unpleasant. No question it is easier in 1st or business but flying in itself drains me so even 1st class would take something out of me I reckon.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
Holiday isn't pre season though is it? Pre season is back to work, back to training.

No idea, in terms of your next question. I've done long haul in cattle class and it was very draining and fairly unpleasant. No question it is easier in 1st or business but flying in itself drains me so even 1st class would take something out of me I reckon.
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And pre-season is not the season. No doubt they'll have some sort of professional plan, where they start of slowly, and then aim to ramp up their fitness. If travelling to the other side was going to damage their main season, there is no way nearly all the top clubs would be doing it. Or they'd time it differently, so that maybe the players get back to the UK2 or 3 weeks before the season starts.

Basically, they'll be travelling first class and staying in 5 star hotels. They'll be away from friends and family, and so the clubs will be sorting out their full daily schedules. They'll be trained by professionals, fed with food carefully planned by dieticians, getting massages after every session and probably chilling out by the pool. And people think that is draining?
 
Swango1980 said:
And pre-season is not the season. No doubt they'll have some sort of professional plan, where they start of slowly, and then aim to ramp up their fitness. If travelling to the other side was going to damage their main season, there is no way nearly all the top clubs would be doing it. Or they'd time it differently, so that maybe the players get back to the UK2 or 3 weeks before the season starts.

Basically, they'll be travelling first class and staying in 5 star hotels. They'll be away from friends and family, and so the clubs will be sorting out their full daily schedules. They'll be trained by professionals, fed with food carefully planned by dieticians, getting massages after every session and probably chilling out by the pool. And people think that is draining?
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Yeah honestly its class. I HATE it when excuses come about players being tired.

Pro Cyclists do events that last for 20+ consecutive days climbing up mountains and have to perform to their highest level for hours and days upon end. :ROFLMAO:
 
Swango1980 said:
And pre-season is not the season. No doubt they'll have some sort of professional plan, where they start of slowly, and then aim to ramp up their fitness. If travelling to the other side was going to damage their main season, there is no way nearly all the top clubs would be doing it. Or they'd time it differently, so that maybe the players get back to the UK2 or 3 weeks before the season starts.

Basically, they'll be travelling first class and staying in 5 star hotels. They'll be away from friends and family, and so the clubs will be sorting out their full daily schedules. They'll be trained by professionals, fed with food carefully planned by dieticians, getting massages after every session and probably chilling out by the pool. And people think that is draining?
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The clubs are making a compromise to bring the money in. Ask Pep, Jurgen et al whether they would like pre-season in Singapore, LA, or Austria. They would go Austria every time, no question. These trips are commercial, not for footballing reasons and they will find them a royal pain in the backside. They will have to work around these, they would not be 1st or second choice destinations.

Hey, if you are happy with your team doing this that's fine. We are just passing the time here but I know what I would rather for my team.
 
Bdill93 said:
Yeah honestly its class. I HATE it when excuses come about players being tired.

Pro Cyclists do events that last for 20+ consecutive days climbing up mountains and have to perform to their highest level for hours and days upon end. :ROFLMAO:
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My issue when clubs complain that players are tired is that what they mean is that the first 11 are tired. Football seems to no longer be a squad game and most outside of the first 15 or 16 players are there in case of dire emergency. Most clubs have 2-3 teams of players, if you rotated them, you could allow plenty of time to recharge during the season but clubs do not not want to go into any match save for early cup rounds without their first choice players. Personally my response to complaining of players being tired would be to tell the clubs to shut up and use the squads they have.
 
Bdill93 said:
Yeah honestly its class. I HATE it when excuses come about players being tired.

Pro Cyclists do events that last for 20+ consecutive days climbing up mountains and have to perform to their highest level for hours and days upon end. :ROFLMAO:
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It's a balance. Pro cyclists are in an endurance sport. Much of the essence of it is getting yourself tired, and the best cyclists are the ones that can endure the pain.

Football isn't really an endurance sport, albeit it plays a factor. Once you get well into the season, it is understandable (sometimes) when tiredness is used as an excuse. If you are a club that is playing every 3 days, and a smaller squad or injuries mean the same key players are playing every match, then they are going to get tired. And they'll get more tired relative to clubs who play less games, or who have been able to rotate better. Still, generally speaking, most of the top clubs will play a lot of games relative to each other, if they are being as successful as they want to be. So, generally speaking, coaches of top clubs should probably just need to accept that if they are to have a good season, they are going to play a lot of games. Players will get tired, and they just have to manage that as best they can. It is all part of the challenge of competing for multiple trophies.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
The clubs are making a compromise to bring the money in. Ask Pep, Jurgen et al whether they would like pre-season in Singapore, LA, or Austria. They would go Austria every time, no question. These trips are commercial, not for footballing reasons and they will find them a royal pain in the backside. They will have to work around these, they would not be 1st or second choice destinations.

Hey, if you are happy with your team doing this that's fine. We are just passing the time here but I know what I would rather for my team.
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That is a different question really. If you simply said "where would you rather go", then it is logical to pick the place that requires the shorter travel time. Nearly everyone would prefer a 3 hr flight time compared to a 12 hour flight time.

However, what we were discussing was whether the long flight time is going to tire the players out before the season. I don't think it does at all. Perhaps it is more of a pain on the backside during the actual flight time, but when the season kicks off for real, I doubt the players will be feeling stiff after their pre season flights.
 
Lord Tyrion said:
We tried to get him on loan in January but Utd held on to him, let him get splinters for the remainder of the season. Surely Utd either sell him or loan him out this year? Keeping him to rot when the manager clearly doesn't fancy him right now makes no sense.
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Players learn way more training with better players and the manager who wants to shape them than they do training under a different regime (a poor one in Everton’s case last year) and potentially playing 90 minutes a week.
 
Swango1980 said:
That is a different question really. If you simply said "where would you rather go", then it is logical to pick the place that requires the shorter travel time. Nearly everyone would prefer a 3 hr flight time compared to a 12 hour flight time.

However, what we were discussing was whether the long flight time is going to tire the players out before the season. I don't think it does at all. Perhaps it is more of a pain on the backside during the actual flight time, but when the season kicks off for real, I doubt the players will be feeling stiff after their pre season flights.
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I guess it is more to how much training time they lose and the impact of jet lag etc. I have travelled first class (using up air miles) on a flight over 12 hours and yes, it is more comfortable but it is still being cooped up in a tin can with limited space to move around etc and I did not feel 100% for a few days after.
 
TimShady said:
Players learn way more training with better players and the manager who wants to shape them than they do training under a different regime (a poor one in Everton’s case last year) and potentially playing 90 minutes a week.
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I'm not sure Utd are in a great position to swagger around on that front. Training can also only get you so far. You need to get a balance but time out on the pitch is hugely important and ultimately worth more than time in training imo.
 
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