Beezerk
Money List Winner
Tracking a player running past you into space isn’t an instruction it’s an instinct. The amount of times I saw our midfield way out of position last night was incredible, mentally they are tactically inept imo.
Tracking a player running past you into space isn’t an instruction it’s an instinct. The amount of times I saw our midfield way out of position last night was incredible, mentally they are tactically inept imo.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
They are always going to be more comfortable in their club roles as they train week in week out, time in the England set up is limited so maybe we should accept a drop (just not as much as last night!)
Had a nights sleep, few things from the game last night:
The anti-England brigade will of loved it.
The Pickford is a liability moan is back.
Anyway, we were horrific from 1-11.
Pickford had the 2 daft moments in 2 minutes, all summer was criticised for hoofing the ball clear, last night he had that chance and instead tried to play football, he should stick to hoofing it upfield, you can’t have it both ways.
The defence looked like they didn’t have a clue or had even met each other, Stones and Colwill didn’t work, TAA and Lewis are not a strong presence at the back.
With someone like Kyle Walker you can always have the feeling he’ll cover the centre half’s or be strong in a tackle, none of those 4 were.
The forward 6 experiment giving them freedom didn’t work, again we’ve had people moan about Kane always playing, well he didn’t last night and it showed.
Haven’t read 1 moan about Palmer missing a sitter in the 1st half or Gordon having a head like a 50p., both chances should of been buried.
Palmer, Foden, Gordon, Lewis, Saka, are all too small, technically very good, but so easily leant on or muscled off the ball.
Bellingham, Rice, no presence, probably worst game for both.
Positives:
Kane fit for sunday
Can’t get any worse
Credit to Carsley for actually trying something different, again something we constantly moaned at Southgate about.
Big up the Greeks, great performance.
Also had a night’s sleep.
Pickford - his decision making is poor. There’s a time to play it out and there’s a time to hoof it. He got it wrong. That aside, he’s head and shoulders above anyone else.
Wingbacks - I think how the CB’s interact with them also forms part of how good or vulnerable they can look. The CB’s aren’t good enough as a pair at international level to play with wing backs. That doesn’t absolve the wing backs. They weren’t good enough.
Midfield - was Rice and Saka actually on the pitch? Awful. Gordon had a decent game, and Palmer showed a few times.
Up-front - can’t say strikers coz there wasn’t any. Bellingham showed how good he is but also got in Gordon’s way several times. Foden… awful. For me, Gordon and Bellingham were playing in each others position. Bellingham was wasted up front. Foden has shown once again that he’s not good enough being played up front. Perhaps unlucky for him but Rice is (usually) the one that plays well where I’d put Foden. There’s no room for Foden. Even if he were moved to the left, Gordon’s a better choice. Palmer should have been playing where Foden was playing.
But what about Carsley’s performance as manager? I wasn’t convinced previously but I am now. Please not him as manager.
As a whole, definitely not the first team playing. Definitely players in the wrong position. Disjointed & ponderous. A disastrous performance on so many levels.
Credit to Greece for a good performance, especially as they’ve been drifting back down towards the minnow’s pool.
Norrin Radd
Tour Winner
If anyone wants Carsley as permanent England manager better read what he said about the formation he played last night .
He said we trialed it for twenty minutes.
TWENTY BLOODY MINUTES!!!!!
The man has no rights to be anywhere near the job.
He said we trialed it for twenty minutes.
TWENTY BLOODY MINUTES!!!!!
The man has no rights to be anywhere near the job.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
The problem in supporting England, when you point out a players problems straight away football fans of other Domestic clubs get all protective. Last night showed exactly why TAA should not be near a team like that set up. That front six set up, should have been a front five with Rice sat in protecting the back four. Rice’s positional play at times was shocking for a holding midfielder, and seeing him play suggested to me that is why Southgate at time went with two holding midfielders because he just cannot do it on his own.
The back four, when you are playing with two full backs like TAA and Rico Lewis, they like to get forward and overlap the midfield. That creates spaces, the amount of space TAA left behind him meant that England were always open to the counter.
I don’t blame Carsley for setting up like that, fans and media have been screaming out for England to use its attacking options. For me to sum that up “ be careful what you wish for”.
For me Saka was shocking and Gordon not much better. Palmer went onto the wing and did nothing. I said last night that it needed experienced players out there with a calm head. That could be Grealish, Kane or Walker etc. Or all three. And if truth be told. They have all been slated lately. But that game gave there chances of extending there England careers a world of good.
One thing I couldn’t understand from last night was not playing a proper centre forward.
The back four, when you are playing with two full backs like TAA and Rico Lewis, they like to get forward and overlap the midfield. That creates spaces, the amount of space TAA left behind him meant that England were always open to the counter.
I don’t blame Carsley for setting up like that, fans and media have been screaming out for England to use its attacking options. For me to sum that up “ be careful what you wish for”.
For me Saka was shocking and Gordon not much better. Palmer went onto the wing and did nothing. I said last night that it needed experienced players out there with a calm head. That could be Grealish, Kane or Walker etc. Or all three. And if truth be told. They have all been slated lately. But that game gave there chances of extending there England careers a world of good.
One thing I couldn’t understand from last night was not playing a proper centre forward.
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Maybe he has been watching ETH interviewsIf anyone wants Carsley as permanent England manager better read what he said about the formation he played last night .
He said we trialed it for twenty minutes.
TWENTY BLOODY MINUTES!!!!!
The man has no rights to be anywhere near the job.
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
Well, when I heard on the radio that we might not play a striker despite having Watkins and Solanke in the squad I knew what was coming. Frankly a pathetic decision which makes literally zero sense. I dont even care whether it was Ollie or Solanke, one of them deserved to play off the back of their performances over the last year and its absolute pure disrespect to not start one of them - what is that doing to their confidence?! Starting 3 number 10's!!!
Foden goes missing in an England shirt every game, stop trying to shoehorn him in.
SELECT AN ACTUAL LEFT BACK, WHO PLAYS AT LEFT BACK FOR HIS CLUB - I DO NOT CARE IF ITS NOT A TOP 6 SIDE
We need a proper CDM as Rice is no longer playing that role at club level.
Defence is a mess
Foden goes missing in an England shirt every game, stop trying to shoehorn him in.
SELECT AN ACTUAL LEFT BACK, WHO PLAYS AT LEFT BACK FOR HIS CLUB - I DO NOT CARE IF ITS NOT A TOP 6 SIDE
We need a proper CDM as Rice is no longer playing that role at club level.
Defence is a mess
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Didn't watch the game but that line-up didn't make any sense at all. What was it, 4-3-3 with a false nine? 4-4-2 with two false nines?? What has Foden done to warrant starting the game? He did very little at the Euros and hasn't exactly made a flying start to the season. Wouldn't have made sense to give Solanke a start and actually have a striker?
Colwill and Lewis making up the left side of the defence seems extremely suspect as well. Inexperienced perhaps. I thought perhaps Colwill would play left back and Guehi keep his place in the middle since he was our best player at the Euros.
Colwill and Lewis making up the left side of the defence seems extremely suspect as well. Inexperienced perhaps. I thought perhaps Colwill would play left back and Guehi keep his place in the middle since he was our best player at the Euros.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Weird isn’t Tash, not one criticism of any of the City players on the pitch, but we’d be better putting 2 more City players in?
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
The old England dilemmas
Don’t think there is any issues with a manager trying things in these games
But what he tried was strange
It seems to be an issue with England were there is the weird fascination with not playing players to their strengths
The squad is full of talented players - pick them in the roles where they shine for their clubs - if you have two for the same role then pick the one you think is best
Gk - Pickford , where he still has those moments but until someone steps up then he is the pick
Back line - full backs
England have two types - the ones that like to drift and get on the ball and look to support - TAA , Lewis etc - and then you have players like Walker - pace , solid
If you are going to play the likes of TAA etc the first you need is CBs with pace that can cover , if you don’t then you go with the likes of Walker or Liveramento etc
CBs - the ones they have are solid - stones , Colwill , Guehi - not an issue there
The big issue for England is the midfield structure
You need a solid base - if you have the likes of Lewis and TAA at full back then you need two players like Rice , Mainoo , The new guy Gomes to be those players that cover across the middle and also drop back into the wider areas to allow full backs to move on
Then you have one spot for a 10 - and you have 3 players that can fill it - Bellingham , Foden , Palmer - go with the best
That leaves the three up top
Saka
Kane
Gordon
But you can play Palmer and Foden in the wider area but not both
If Kane isn’t there then it’s Watkins or Solanke
Add in the likes of Madueke
The players are there
It needs a manager to stop trying to fit them all in and be brave enough to have some talent sitting on the bench
Don’t think there is any issues with a manager trying things in these games
But what he tried was strange
It seems to be an issue with England were there is the weird fascination with not playing players to their strengths
The squad is full of talented players - pick them in the roles where they shine for their clubs - if you have two for the same role then pick the one you think is best
Gk - Pickford , where he still has those moments but until someone steps up then he is the pick
Back line - full backs
England have two types - the ones that like to drift and get on the ball and look to support - TAA , Lewis etc - and then you have players like Walker - pace , solid
If you are going to play the likes of TAA etc the first you need is CBs with pace that can cover , if you don’t then you go with the likes of Walker or Liveramento etc
CBs - the ones they have are solid - stones , Colwill , Guehi - not an issue there
The big issue for England is the midfield structure
You need a solid base - if you have the likes of Lewis and TAA at full back then you need two players like Rice , Mainoo , The new guy Gomes to be those players that cover across the middle and also drop back into the wider areas to allow full backs to move on
Then you have one spot for a 10 - and you have 3 players that can fill it - Bellingham , Foden , Palmer - go with the best
That leaves the three up top
Saka
Kane
Gordon
But you can play Palmer and Foden in the wider area but not both
If Kane isn’t there then it’s Watkins or Solanke
Add in the likes of Madueke
The players are there
It needs a manager to stop trying to fit them all in and be brave enough to have some talent sitting on the bench
PaulMdj
Well-known member
We’ve inown that about Pickford from day 1, just accept he hoofs it, but in the Euros it was a constant criticism of him, he’s not bright enough to think! Just tell him to Row Z it.
I don’t blame Carsley that much, he’s got 6 games in charge and nothing to lose, he gambled, he gambled in ways we the the supporters were desperate for Southgate to try. He failed and probably has learnt a lot.
But if anyone thinks there is some tactical wizard out there waiting to take over, they need to give their head a wobble.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
I'd have been happy with Jude playing next to Rice, but would have used Colwill at left back since he's more the defensive type then.
Trent - Stones - Guehi - Colwill
Rice - Jude
Saka - Palmer - Gordon
Solanke
Rice - Jude
Saka - Palmer - Gordon
Solanke
Far too sensible I suppose. Really no room for Foden in this line-up considering Palmer is streets ahead of him this season, and we've seen that he's not too effective playing left side.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
That would work IF Rice sits - they both can’t go wandering , someone needs to be disciplined to be the solid protecting one
That formation works against most nations
Orikoru
Tour Winner
Yeah. Someone needs to make him understand that that is his role. He's not the reincarnation of Stevie G. We don't have anyone else who can do it.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
Are you guilty of trying to shoehorn players in on reputation, not position? Not sure Bellingham is a defensive midfielder or would be inclined to sit back and play the ball. He would not offer much protection to the back 4
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Thing is though, before the game all the right “buzz” words were being spoken and the thought of Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Saka and Gordon attacking any defensive line was frightening, but turned out crap.
I still don’t rate Gordon defensively or over 90 minutes.
Palmer needs to toughen up, even for Chelsea when his team mates were having handbags with the Forest players, he didn’t back them up, he sat down and watched! He needs a hard side, him, Foden, Saka & Gordon.
I still don’t rate Gordon defensively or over 90 minutes.
Palmer needs to toughen up, even for Chelsea when his team mates were having handbags with the Forest players, he didn’t back them up, he sat down and watched! He needs a hard side, him, Foden, Saka & Gordon.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Surely Bellingham is better going forward so why shackle him sitting. Rice should be capable of doing that role
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
You have him as an 8 - the one with the license to be more box to box , you don’t have him sitting
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Not sure him tracking back to our box fits with his skill sets. I'd prefer to utilise the attacking side and let others in the midfield like Rice do the tracking
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
None of them. Any of the England players including City players played any good. The thing is I willWeird isn’t Tash, not one criticism of any of the City players on the pitch, but we’d be better putting 2 more City players in?
Accept that. I mentioned 3 players. Two were City. But etc covers everyone else.
including other City players 
