Red devil
Well-known member
I've never known him to broadcast his allegiance
clubchamp98
Journeyman Pro
Thing is for me.Indeed...I understand why he was annoyed, and he, like all of us, clearly hates Anthony Taylor. Suppose it depends what was said - from my limited lip reading ability, he's emphasising that he got the ball or "GOT THE ******** BALL" when he was shouting at Taylor.
So was probably (hopefully) "passionately" getting his point across that Jones pointed out he got the ball, so why are they changing their mind at the first sign of peer pressure from the bench/crowd.
Rob Jones hasn't been assigned to a Forest game since he (very wrongly) sent Boly off vs Bournemouth last season - so I imagine in the heat of the moment, they were aggrieved that he's managed to cause controversy again in the 1st game officiating us since.
Will see what comes out of the wash this week, but hopefully just the single game ban as he's obviously a key player; but having said that, I'm intrigued and excited to see whoever steps up in his place on Sat, whether it be Jota in a more AM role, or whether they push Anderson or JWP up into that role. We've still got the tools to be able to beat Fulham (especially at home), but definitely going to be more difficult.
For the ref to motion he got the ball he must have had a good view.
Who’s to say A Taylor’s view was better.?
So he should have the balls to say “ no I saw it ok”
It’s not like Taylor never makes mistakes is it.
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
I think this is everyone's gripe with it (from a Forest perspective). He's motioned he got the ball (and wasn't hesitant to do so).
He's only changed his mind having been pressured by outside influences (hot crowd/bench/manager).
It was probably the right decision, but I genuinely can't think of a similar instance, with a similar scenario where the ref has given a throw in and then gone "oh actually, I change my mind" seconds later.
Alex Moreno got studded in the first half, with stud marks on his calf, and hobbled around the rest of the 1st half and the ref didn't so much as bat an eyelid or think about changing the decision that was given.
As always, it's the inconsistency and unnecessary calls which cause control to be lost.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Definitely. I think a lot of referees are becoming scared to make a decision immediately for fear of it being over turned as "clear and obvious" but here he's decided the ball had been played and then seemed to succumb outside pressure. I think he should have had the conviction of what he saw and run with it. No doubt had he done so he'd have been pulled up at the referee review if nowhere else so a case almost of can't do right for doing wrong
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Heck of statement - might well have changed his mind after being spoken to by one of his other officials and nothing to do with the bench etc
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
But having already indicated the ball was played why change on their perspective when he is closer. His view would have been good enough for him to have made that call so what did the 4th official see that was difference. I think it was the outside influence that caused the issue
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
I'm including Taylor as an outside influence. As I said earlier, if he's not sure, consult the 4th official then make the call. Don't say "He got the ball" and be so sure about it, and then not follow through with your decision.
Name me one other scenario where the Referee has overturned his decision of saying a player got the ball thanks to input from the 4th official.
Keith Hackett summed the weekend up perfectly;
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Think he's spot on. Let the referee get on with it the passage of play will come to a natural conclusion and no flash point. If it was as clear as Taylor was making out why didn't VAR want to get involved. A 4th official sticking their whistle in (metaphorically) where there was no need
I'd love a modern ref to go through a past match of Keith Hackett's and pull it apart. I don't think it would be tricky. He was a top ref but the scrutiny now is different level.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Also a totally different game. Far more tackles allowed (or got away with) than would ever be allowed and penalised with a card today
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
You're probably not wrong...
But I look at it like this: If the yellow card had been given straight away, I don't think ANYONE would have been aggrieved.
It's how we got there that's the issue. DO NOT SIGNAL to all 22 players, the bench, the coaching staff and 31000 fans that he got the ball only to change your mind because the 4th Official's gone "I don't think he did". If you're not sure, consult the Lino/4th official and then make the call.
If you think he got the ball and it was a fair tackle, have the balls to say "I had a good view of it, which is why I signalled it. Throw in"
The only reason why it kicked off is because he flip flopped. Like I say, I don't ever recall seeing a ref make a decision on field only to change their mind seconds later thanks to outside input (not including VAR obviously).
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
This is kind of where I'm at. I'd be less annoyed if Rob Jones (who wasn't really anywhere near the challenge) had consulted Taylor before confirming his decision, instead of outright saying "He got the ball"...and THEN changing his mind. He just seems to lack control of any game he officiates and I'm still sour on him from giving Boly a sending off for a perfectly good tackle last season, which doesn't help my mindset
I wouldn't want MGW to change the way he plays, but on a yellow, definitely be a bit more sensible, and I think, watching back, he'll learn from it. Not ideal to be without him and Nuno next week against a tough Fulham side, but we've got more depth in the squad now.
We took 4 points from Anfield and The Amex and we're still unbeaten. Overall, I'm delighted.
You're building just like another Midlands club were 2/3 years ago - and I like what I see!
Some really good talent on show at Forest, you genuinely aren't far away from being a side challenging for top 8 places and I hope you keep that momentum!
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
I have a soft spot for Villa, so it's great to see your lads doing well also.
As soon as we sell Portuguese Jack Grealish to City for silly money, we'll probably be accused of copying your footprint.
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Exactly. I don't see how the 4th official could have seen anything that untoward to indicate it was a foul. Had the ref made the decision and blown up as you say no-one would have been that upset. By getting involved the 4th official caused 2 red cards that would never have happened and to be honest I hope when the referee panel sit down with the officials and review the game they tear Taylor a new one as it was his action alone that caused what followed and was something that didn't need to happen if the referee was happy to play on.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
VAR can not get involved in yellow cards decisions.
The 4th Official is there to assist the other 3 Officials.
PaulMdj
Well-known member
I take it you got 100% of your decisions correct when you were Refereeing, or did another Official ever assist you?
PaulMdj
Well-known member
He did when he was working at the Echo.
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
He isn’t an outside influence- he is part of the official team , it’s not just the referee making the decisions now and hasn’t been for a while
MGW did tackle that’s been outlawed for a while and it was a correct yellow card. Point the finger of blame at MGW
Bdill93
Undisputed King of FOMO
I have a soft spot for Villa, so it's great to see your lads doing well also.
As soon as we sell Portuguese Jack Grealish to City for silly money, we'll probably be accused of copying your footprint.
Its a smart way of doing it - we also signed plenty of players upon promotion..
Some turned into great players - Douglas Luiz for example. Some played their part for a while but were upgraded - Matt Targett/ Nakamba and some failed to get off the ground entirely - Wesley..
However, they were all brought cheap and I can bet the net profit on those players will be decent overall.
Throw in selling Jack, making a 20m profit on Diaby in 12 months and some other good deals along the way - Konsa, Watkins, Kamara, Tilemans, Rogers.. you've got yourself a great side!
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Rarely had an independent other official aside from linesmen from each team (so hardly neutral) and so I had to take their input with due diligence and more than once ignored an offside flag (player coming onto a ball from his own half being a prime example). And to answer the other part of course not but at the level I refereed at, they were lucky to get an official and so most accepted the decision being made with "best intent". Sadly at local recreation grounds VAR and a chance to look at a monitor was in shot supply (no wait, there wasn't even such a thing) and we were allowed to make a decision on what we saw at that time. Of course I think you already knew the answer
