The Footie Thread

[HomerJSimpson]

Lets see what happens tomorrow. If Kane does drop back again then I think the system needs looking at and maybe a change of personnel but if we are looking good going forward he'll be taking up his normal position. If we are bogged down chances are he'll drift again

 

[Orikoru]

When Rooney used to drop deep to get on the ball the team was set up as a 4-4-2 and most of the time he had Owen being high

players like Beckham were looking to get balls in the box but there was also someone high

You can’t mould the whole team around Kane and his desire to drop deep

It only works if the two wide players are looking to get in the box in the same way Liverpool did with Salah and Mane with Firmino dropping deep or you have midfield runners

Again that’s not set up to get the best out of as many of the top players

If Kane can’t stay high then the manager needs to bring on someone that can

Complete rubbish and not going to happen. Kane is a world class forward, the drop-off to his back-up players is vast so he won't be dropped. To even suggest it is laughable. Watkins is decent, but not world class, and he's not even an out-and-out striker either really. No other country in the world would talk like this either, trying to pin the blame on their best players and get them dropped for average replacements. Just daft. Other countries create a system that works to get the best out of their best players. Not fashion a system that only works with inferior players, what would be the point of that??

 

[Beezerk]

Kane would have bagged a hatful if he had been in the Portugal team last night, that alone is enough reason for him to be the first name on the England team sheet…imo of course

 

[Swango1980]

Regarding Ronaldo, I wasn't sure how he'd play having not seen him in ages, and him obviously being older now. However, I thought he played really well. Still looks a massive presence in the side, really intelligent in his movement and still looks a massive threat. Nearly pulled off a great assist when he back healed it into the path of a team mate. And made a wonderful header that hit the post, albeit slightly offside. I think people simply criticise him as he is clearly not the 26 year old Ronaldo who could run through an entire defence at a million miles an hour. But, as a Number 9, I still think he is probably one of the finest in the world (especially at a time there don't seem to be many of them).

Regarding Kane, we've had the same arguments for years. He shouldn't come deep, he needs to stay high, etc. And yet, as far as I can tell, he has always come deep, and for years he has been one of the finest strikers in the world. maybe the best striker in the world in many people's mind. Kanes intelligence in dropping deep, his control, vision and passing is what makes him so special. Linking up with team mates, switching play and giving them opportunities to score, rather than him being the sole focal point. For me, I wouldn't change the way Kane plays. At the same time, I think Southgate needs to find a way to set up the team around him so he doesn't crowd that No 10, free role position. Having Kane, Bellingham and then Foden (who will probably come more central) is probably over-kill, and they may end up getting in each others way. I think it is OK with Bellingham / Foden and Kane linking up in that area at times, just not all 3. I think having someone like Gordon on the left, keeping the width and running into space behind the defence when Kane picks it up will probably be much more potent, and balanced. Saka doing same on right.

Others have made the point, trying to fit Foden in the side is like trying to fit Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard in the side. Is there a system he can find that allows it, but still offers balance. Or, does he just need to play an actual winger on the left and see Foden as an unbelievable person to have on your bench? Unlike the Golden generation, where options were limited on the left, England now have some excellent options in that position.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Has Kane been dropping back with Bayern?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Complete rubbish and not going to happen. Kane is a world class forward, the drop-off to his back-up players is vast so he won't be dropped. To even suggest it is laughable. Watkins is decent, but not world class, and he's not even an out-and-out striker either really. No other country in the world would talk like this either, trying to pin the blame on their best players and get them dropped for average replacements. Just daft. Other countries create a system that works to get the best out of their best players. Not fashion a system that only works with inferior players, what would be the point of that??

How is it “complete rubbish”

Doesn’t matter if someone is “world class” if their play doesn’t suit others around

Kane being “world class” should mean he has the ability to adjust his play to suit the players behind him

You don’t have a system revolve around one player


Is Bellingham inferior to Kane ? Not a chance , he is better , is Foden inferior to Kane - nope

Watkins and Toney may not be “world class” but they may suit the players behind them better and the team may actually work well better

There is zero point calling Kane world class striker when he spends most of his time dropping deep to try and help create chances for a striker that’s not there

 

[PaulMdj]

If that sub would have led the line then it would have been a smart move. I think we all agree that England dropped way too deep in the second half and that has nothing to do with Kane. Not being there as an outlet was his issue though. Someone like Toney might have done that role better, allowed the midfield to feed off him, run past him. Kane was too deep for that to happen. Toney couldn't have done more with the lack of chances but maybe his hold up play, being higher up, may have created other chances? We will never know but I don't like the lead striker coming so deep.

So England dropped way too deep (I agree) but Kane should stayed up? How much of a gap between the midfield and Kane would that of been?

No sub would of done better, Kane is one of the best in the world at holding the ball up and Toney would of dropped deep as well or stayed up front and got no service.

 

[PaulMdj]

The problem is not Kane it's the fact we have no width at all. Kane drops deep, Bellingham should be running beyond him. We have Foden coming inside trying to play where Bellingham is. Our left-back is right-footed and cuts inside. Saka on the right flank cuts inside. It's not just Kane, everyone is trying to play in the same area. When Kane gets no service from out wide (because there is nobody out wide), he goes looking to create something himself. Just like Rooney used to do, so it's not like this is a new thing for England. We've had 20 years to sort this out.

Reposting this just for the sake that it is 100% correct.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Kane would have bagged a hatful if he had been in the Portugal team last night, that alone is enough reason for him to be the first name on the England team sheet…imo of course

He would have grabbed a hatful playing as a striker not dropping deep - he won’t score goals from midfield - if he stays high and lets the likes of Saka , Foden , Bellingham , TAA create for him then he will get chances - he doesn’t need to drop deep

That doesn’t mean it’s the only issue for England - they still have problems on the left side

 

[PaulMdj]

It is not his fault but he has to recognise it is not happening and deal with it. He also needs to recognise that we need him as an outlet at times and if he isn't there, he isn't doing the team any favours.

When was he not there? We never got wide in the 2nd half, we were pushed back, changing the wide players would of made no difference if they’re being asked to defend.

 

[Swango1980]

He would have grabbed a hatful playing as a striker not dropping deep - he won’t score goals from midfield - if he stays high and lets the likes of Saka , Foden , Bellingham , TAA create for him then he will get chances - he doesn’t need to drop deep

He has scored quite a lot of goals, whilst dropping deep in the past. Unless has played as an out and out striker, playing high up the pitch, all the way through his career up to now?

 

[Orikoru]

How is it “complete rubbish”

Doesn’t matter if someone is “world class” if their play doesn’t suit others around

Kane being “world class” should mean he has the ability to adjust his play to suit the players behind him

You don’t have a system revolve around one player


Is Bellingham inferior to Kane ? Not a chance , he is better , is Foden inferior to Kane - nope

Watkins and Toney may not be “world class” but they may suit the players behind them better and the team may actually work well better

There is zero point calling Kane world class striker when he spends most of his time dropping deep to try and help create chances for a striker that’s not there

Just in case we forgot.

You mention Foden, people have been talking about dropping him as well. "He doesn't play well for England like he does for City where he's managed by Guardiola in a team that's won 57 trophies" yeah, I wonder why? England fans are a joke for the amount they bash their best players. Let's bring back 4-4-2 and stick Aaron Lennon and Stuart Downing on the wings, get some crosses in, that's obviously the way forward.

Belgium failed to score in their first game, do we think their fans are demanding Lukaku is dropped for (*checks notes*) Lois Openda? I doubt it very much. You don't just drop your best players after a ropey game (that we won by the way), you come up with something that gets the best out of them. Utterly stupid to suggest otherwise. We don't win the Euros with Watkins up front, Bowen on the left and two of the world's best players in Kane and Foden sitting around on the bench.

 

[Swango1980]

Interesting that many people think Ronaldo should not play in the first team for Portugal, because he becomes the focal point and has a negative impact on the forward lines mobility.

Many of the same people than tell us Harry Kane just should stay up front, and play more like......Ronaldo

 

[PaulMdj]

How is it “complete rubbish”

Doesn’t matter if someone is “world class” if their play doesn’t suit others around

Kane being “world class” should mean he has the ability to adjust his play to suit the players behind him

You don’t have a system revolve around one player


Is Bellingham inferior to Kane ? Not a chance , he is better , is Foden inferior to Kane - nope

Watkins and Toney may not be “world class” but they may suit the players behind them better and the team may actually work well better

There is zero point calling Kane world class striker when he spends most of his time dropping deep to try and help create chances for a striker that’s not there

He only dropped deep in the 2nd half as our defence and midfield dropped, first half when we were on the front foot he was on their back line and had players running on.

 

[Beezerk]

He would have grabbed a hatful playing as a striker not dropping deep - he won’t score goals from midfield - if he stays high and lets the likes of Saka , Foden , Bellingham , TAA create for him then he will get chances - he doesn’t need to drop deep

That doesn’t mean it’s the only issue for England - they still have problems on the left side

I’d love to be a fly on the wall, has Southgate told him to drop deep? If not why is Southgate not screaming at him from the sidelines to stay high? I’d also question why other team mates aren’t having a word with him if he’s continually coming out of position.

 

[Beezerk]

Interesting that many people think Ronaldo should not play in the first team for Portugal, because he becomes the focal point and has a negative impact on the forward lines mobility.

Many of the same people than tell us Harry Kane just should stay up front, and play more like......Ronaldo

The point to my post was Kanes movement in the box and ability to sniff out goals is now far better than Ronaldo’s. Ronaldo was very static at times and easy to mark, almost asking for the ball to be crossed on a plate, as opposed to Kane who creates space for himself. In that particular type of centre forward role who stays in the box, Kane for me all day long.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

View attachment 53836

Just in case we forgot.

You mention Foden, people have been talking about dropping him as well. "He doesn't play well for England like he does for City where he's managed by Guardiola in a team that's won 57 trophies" yeah, I wonder why? England fans are a joke for the amount they bash their best players. Let's bring back 4-4-2 and stick Aaron Lennon and Stuart Downing on the wings, get some crosses in, that's obviously the way forward.

Belgium failed to score in their first game, do we think their fans are demanding Lukaku is dropped for (*checks notes*) Lois Openda? I doubt it very much. You don't just drop your best players after a ropey game (that we won by the way), you come up with something that gets the best out of them. Utterly stupid to suggest otherwise. We don't win the Euros with Watkins up front, Bowen on the left and two of the world's best players in Kane and Foden sitting around on the bench.

Euro 2024: Harry Kane is not England's playmaker - Alan Shearer - BBC Sport

Ex-England captain Alan Shearer says Harry Kane's role against Serbia was different to what we are used to, but just as important for the team.

www.bbc.co.uk

Why don’t you win the Euros with Kane on the bench ? That’s complete nonsense when you look back through history and see the countries that have managed to win the Euros

What Euros have we won with Kane ?

if England were dominant against the top teams and winning the games against the top teams to be able to win these tournaments then there would be no need to change

But they don’t - they consistently get found out against top teams and are unable to adjust or find ways to get past top teams when it matters - that’s a combination off many things including getting the best out of many players

Kane does score goals - a lot , but when it matters against the top teams , not so much

 

[Lord Tyrion]

When was he not there? We never got wide in the 2nd half, we were pushed back, changing the wide players would of made no difference if they’re being asked to defend.

He only dropped deep in the 2nd half as our defence and midfield dropped, first half when we were on the front foot he was on their back line and had players running on.

I think you have answered your own question there .

We should have brought Gordon on, pushed the whole back line 10yds forward at least. We invited Serbia onto us, brought danger when there didn't need to be. If everyone stays deep the ball is only going to keep coming back at us.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I’d love to be a fly on the wall, has Southgate told him to drop deep? If not why is Southgate not screaming at him from the sidelines to stay high? I’d also question why other team mates aren’t having a word with him if he’s continually coming out of position.

I think it’s a combination of Southgate’s ability as a manager , players maybe not being strong enough , and Kane being captain - I wonder if someone else like Rice was captain he would be pushing not just Kane but others up higher

England issues are more than Kane dropping deep , and maybe the reason that happens is because of the set up

England didn’t work with Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes together and someone should have missed out

It’s the same now imo

Foden and Bellingham don’t work together and someone imo needs to miss out

So I think the next team should be


Pickford

Walker
Stones
Guehi
Shaw

Rice
TAA

Gordon
Bellingham
Saka

Kane

 

[HomerJSimpson]

And here we go again with stats and links to try and prove a point. Another discussion begins to veer off track. At the end of the day, it may be under instruction, it may be a natural inclination but whatever the reason England won if not that easily and lets see where we go tomorrow. I think the Danes will be a tougher proposition and are capable of beating an under par England performance but there was enough in the opening 30 minutes to indicate that if we get it right and it clicks we can beat anyone.