The Footie Thread

[sunshine]

@Bdill93 what are your thoughts on Tim Iroegbunam? It looks like we are buying him, not just agent rumour.

He had a season at QPR and was largely anonymous. Emery has really helped his development, if he goes somewhere else he might fade again... depends on the team / manager.

 

[Orikoru]

I don’t think the three work together to get the best out of all three

So it’s 2 from 3 - either Bellingham as a 10 with Kane

Or it’s Bellingham as a False 9 with Foden behind and some wider left

It worked in October when we beat Italy 3-1.



Perhaps Foden is better off on the right with Saka dropping out? Either way, it seems stupid to write off our three best players playing together because we only beat Serbia 1-0.

 

[Swango1980]

Just cast your mind back to the 2016 Euros Final and what happened there

Portugal lost Ronaldo after 15 mins or so

And went on to win

And there are examples of that through our history where teams have won tournaments even missing star players

Kane is a top quality player - but that doesn’t mean that teams can’t win without him , that doesn’t mean that Watkins or Toney can’t come in and help the team as a whole and win matches

That’s the same for any player who people will deem “world class” - tournament football is about getting a result as a team

This is one of the most crazy arguments I've heard to try and make a point. Pick an example in time where a team lost a big player and still won, case closed, you don't need your best players!!! Are you saying Portugal would have lost had Ronaldo stayed on the pitch?

I think most rational people would admit that if they wanted Portugal to win, they'd have preferred Ronaldo to stay on the pitch beyond 15 minutes. And, although they still won, their odds of winning would have been higher (possibly significantly higher) had he stayed on the pitch.

 

[SteveW86]

Guys, I think I know what the problem is. We need Henderson back on the pitch to clap and shout at Kane to stay upfield.

 

[Swango1980]

What’s the point in Kane being a “better striker” when he isn’t in the box to be a striker and instead is stepping on the toes of midfielders that trying to create for him

He won’t get service from the midfield when he himself is sat in midfield - players are looking for a focal point and he isn’t there because he is stood next to them

The comparisons was more about who you build a system around - Kane , Bellingham ? Foden ?

As is said in earlier posts the three together didn’t work - people point to the first 35 mins being very good - Kane had one touch in that period , a lot of the good work was coming from Saka and Bellingham

Bellingham is the main man - Look at the way Real Madrid play him - as that false 9

I think he is just as good as a ten supporting Kane up high

But there needs to be the same outlet from the left as they get from the right - and that means Fodens role needs to either change or be replaced

Get someone like Gordon and Shaw on the left - then you start getting more chances for TAA to ping balls both ways and then allow them to create chances Kane


I don’t think the three work together to get the best out of all three

So it’s 2 from 3 - either Bellingham as a 10 with Kane

Or it’s Bellingham as a False 9 with Foden behind and some wider left

I'll take a punt that if you were manager, you'd drop Kane before you'd consider dropping TAA

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Apart from your bit about Bellingham playing as a 10, I don’t recognise an ounce of sense in your post.

Where was Kane for Bellingham’s goal? Oh look, it was Kane that dragged the centre back across leaving the hole behind. He was there if the ball went front post and he created a juicy gap behind him. Kane plays intelligent football, and tracks back. My question for when he tracks back is why aren’t other players recognising it and playing accordingly. Instead of swiping at one of the best forwards in the world, why not ask why others aren’t good enough to play with him.

Hell of a record in the Prem. Hell of a record in Germany. Hell of an international record. And you’re questioning his ability over 90mins to deliver? I agree with @Orikoru you’re talking rubbish.

Yep hell of a record - zero trophies for any team

But I guess if you read other posts form others and myself you will see it’s not about Kanes movement being the issue

It’s more the fact he is dropping deep into areas where you want to see players like Bellingham get on the ball - it’s amazing how other professional footballers can highlight the same thing yet it’s called absolute rubbish on here and complete lack of sense , if you have other ex professionals ( and world class strikers) highlighting it as an issue why is it “absolute rubbish” - it’s a shame people’s opinions can’t just be accepted as opinions

Kanes best play against Serbia was when he was dragged the defenders left and right to create space - he wasn’t dropping deep to get involved , his movement in the first 35 mins was excellent and that’s what created the goal

 

[Swango1980]

Guys, I think I know what the problem is. We need Henderson back on the pitch to clap and shout at Kane to stay upfield.

With no Henderson, or Phillips, I'm guessing some England fans need to take a swipe at Southgates selection, by suggesting he should drop the best (possibly) striker on the planet.

Although, having got into the flow of the debate, I suspect it is pretty much only a very small number of England fans, one of which is extremely persistent and descriptive in his arguments, thus making it appear a bigger issue that it really is.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is one of the most crazy arguments I've heard to try and make a point. Pick an example in time where a team lost a big player and still won, case closed, you don't need your best players!!! Are you saying Portugal would have lost had Ronaldo stayed on the pitch?

I think most rational people would admit that if they wanted Portugal to win, they'd have preferred Ronaldo to stay on the pitch beyond 15 minutes. And, although they still won, their odds of winning would have been higher (possibly significantly higher) had he stayed on the pitch.

It is only to prove a point. Look how many posts on this thread today alone arguing the toss and coming out with some ludicrous arguments to try and justify his point of view. Wont' accept any other point of view. At least others are putting up some rational arguments for and against. It will carry on and on and even more so should we play poorly tomorrow and Kane ends up dropping back. You can almost hear the I told you his shouldn't play and wasn't I right posts being typed ready

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It worked in October when we beat Italy 3-1.

View attachment 53837

Perhaps Foden is better off on the right with Saka dropping out? Either way, it seems stupid to write off our three best players playing together because we only beat Serbia 1-0.

Or maybe it’s with two Centre mids that both sit

Maybe that’s an issue he is trying to have too many playmakers in the team , players that crowd a space

The biggest issue I think England have is lack of width because players are looking to natural move into the centre where they play their best - the bold play would be to try

Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Walker

Rice
Bellingham

Saka
Foden
Gordon

Kane

That’s the best creative players in their main roles they have at clubs

 

[SteveW86]

It is only to prove a point. Look how many posts on this thread today alone arguing the toss and coming out with some ludicrous arguments to try and justify his point of view. Wont' accept any other point of view. At least others are putting up some rational arguments for and against. It will carry on and on and even more so should we play poorly tomorrow and Kane ends up dropping back. You can almost hear the I told you his shouldn't play and wasn't I right posts being typed ready

Just playing catch up on the thread and reading through it, the argument is being carried on by both sides. Accept both opinions and dont discuss it further, or answer back and it continues back and forth.

Southgate must be happy with with Kane dropping back, or he wouldnt allow it. Kane is undoubtably our best striker, possibly ever but the system needs to work for the team.

 

[Hobbit]

Yep hell of a record - zero trophies for any team

But I guess if you read other posts form others and myself you will see it’s not about Kanes movement being the issue

It’s more the fact he is dropping deep into areas where you want to see players like Bellingham get on the ball - it’s amazing how other professional footballers can highlight the same thing yet it’s called absolute rubbish on here and complete lack of sense , if you have other ex professionals ( and world class strikers) highlighting it as an issue why is it “absolute rubbish” - it’s a shame people’s opinions can’t just be accepted as opinions

Kanes best play against Serbia was when he was dragged the defenders left and right to create space - he wasn’t dropping deep to get involved , his movement in the first 35 mins was excellent and that’s what created the goal

I accept it’s your opinion, I just think you’re talking rubbish. Does he track back too often? If you read my posts I’ve said that at least twice. But if you watch what happens when Saka got the ball on a number of occasions, Kane is exactly where he’s most needed, i.e. leading the line. When England were under severe pressure Kane often tracked back, helping to flood midfield and squeeze the ball. When midfield won the ball it was invariably laid off, and Kane moved forward whilst the ball went sideways and the team regained its shape.

Was he upfront to receive the ball and hold it up? Sometimes, no. Did he need to be? Sometimes, yes. Would I like him to play further forward at times? Yes, but where’s the midfield squeeze if he does that…

There isn’t a set formula to play football. You see it one way, rather shallowly at times in my opinion, and I see it differently. You disagree with me, and vice versa.

 

[Swango1980]

Or maybe it’s with two Centre mids that both sit

Maybe that’s an issue he is trying to have too many playmakers in the team , players that crowd a space

The biggest issue I think England have is lack of width because players are looking to natural move into the centre where they play their best - the bold play would be to try

Pickford

TAA
Stones
Guehi
Walker

Rice
Bellingham

Saka
Foden
Gordon

Kane

That’s the best creative players in their main roles they have at clubs

So, after we all had to endure all of that ridiculous debate, you've picked Kane in your starting line up.

The gift that keeps on giving

 

[backwoodsman]

I am happy to admit that I know naff all about strengths and weaknesses of individual players. And even less about formations and tactics. Am just surprised that it's taken me 3000+ pages to realise that, really, no-one else does either.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

He had a season at QPR and was largely anonymous. Emery has really helped his development, if he goes somewhere else he might fade again... depends on the team / manager.

A bit of Dyche love should do the trick then . We can't afford the luxury of a player being anonymous so Dyche and his staff will work hard to make him feel wanted and hopefully get the best out of him.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

He couldn't have been too bad. He forced a world class save from their keeper did he not?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I am happy to admit that I know naff all about strengths and weaknesses of individual players. And even less about formations and tactics. Am just surprised that it's taken me 3000+ pages to realise that, really, no-one else does either.

You could have gleaned that nugget from page 1

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Just playing catch up on the thread and reading through it, the argument is being carried on by both sides. Accept both opinions and dont discuss it further, or answer back and it continues back and forth.

Southgate must be happy with with Kane dropping back, or he wouldnt allow it. Kane is undoubtably our best striker, possibly ever but the system needs to work for the team.

I really can’t see what the issue is

A bunch of people discussing football , different ideas , different opinions , good natured , nothing over the top - the same sort of debate that’s prob been hand across the country - even MOTD had the exact same debate

A few are trying to

I accept it’s your opinion, I just think you’re talking rubbish. Does he track back too often? If you read my posts I’ve said that at least twice. But if you watch what happens when Saka got the ball on a number of occasions, Kane is exactly where he’s most needed, i.e. leading the line. When England were under severe pressure Kane often tracked back, helping to flood midfield and squeeze the ball. When midfield won the ball it was invariably laid off, and Kane moved forward whilst the ball went sideways and the team regained its shape.

Was he upfront to receive the ball and hold it up? Sometimes, no. Did he need to be? Sometimes, yes. Would I like him to play further forward at times? Yes, but where’s the midfield squeeze if he does that…

There isn’t a set formula to play football. You see it one way, rather shallowly at times in my opinion, and I see it differently. You disagree with me, and vice versa.

There is a difference between “tracking back” - and what Kane is doing at times especially in the second half

He isn’t tracking back to help defend etc he is dropping deep looking to get on the ball - at times he has gone next to rice to pick the ball from him

In the first half his movement was more lateral to open up the space - that’s when it’s great movement and when England looked dangerous- second half he was too deep and crowding the space and not being there for anyone to release the ball to get the team up the pitch

Kane imo drops deep to get on the ball to look to create for runners going past him - like someone said earlier like he used to do with Spurs , those runners aren’t there for England , it’s not how those players work

I believe if you keep Kane higher up the pitch ( that doesn’t mean he can’t track any runners ) then his movement in the top half will create the space for the likes of Bellingham , Saka , etc to exploit - by dragging CBs out wide is what he was doing first half and when England looked dangerous

Both times when England have come close to do well they have sat back and sat too deep - they need to push higher , they have the players to cover , they have the ability to go at teams and frighten them

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I really can’t see what the issue is

A bunch of people discussing football , different ideas , different opinions , good natured , nothing over the top - the same sort of debate that’s prob been hand across the country - even MOTD had the exact same debate

A few are trying to


There is a difference between “tracking back” - and what Kane is doing at times especially in the second half

He isn’t tracking back to help defend etc he is dropping deep looking to get on the ball - at times he has gone next to rice to pick the ball from him

In the first half his movement was more lateral to open up the space - that’s when it’s great movement and when England looked dangerous- second half he was too deep and crowding the space and not being there for anyone to release the ball to get the team up the pitch

Kane imo drops deep to get on the ball to look to create for runners going past him - like someone said earlier like he used to do with Spurs , those runners aren’t there for England , it’s not how those players work

I believe if you keep Kane higher up the pitch ( that doesn’t mean he can’t track any runners ) then his movement in the top half will create the space for the likes of Bellingham , Saka , etc to exploit - by dragging CBs out wide is what he was doing first half and when England looked dangerous

Both times when England have come close to do well they have sat back and sat too deep - they need to push higher , they have the players to cover , they have the ability to go at teams and frighten them

And on we go

 

[SteveW86]

And on we go

Stop replying to him then, its really not that hard

 

[Hobbit]

There is a difference between “tracking back” - and what Kane is doing at times especially in the second half

He isn’t tracking back to help defend etc he is dropping deep looking to get on the ball - at times he has gone next to rice to pick the ball from him

In the first half his movement was more lateral to open up the space - that’s when it’s great movement and when England looked dangerous- second half he was too deep and crowding the space and not being there for anyone to release the ball to get the team up the pitch

Kane imo drops deep to get on the ball to look to create for runners going past him - like someone said earlier like he used to do with Spurs , those runners aren’t there for England , it’s not how those players work

I believe if you keep Kane higher up the pitch ( that doesn’t mean he can’t track any runners ) then his movement in the top half will create the space for the likes of Bellingham , Saka , etc to exploit - by dragging CBs out wide is what he was doing first half and when England looked dangerous

Both times when England have come close to do well they have sat back and sat too deep - they need to push higher , they have the players to cover , they have the ability to go at teams and frighten them

Let’s just agree to disagree. You’ve got your opinion, and I’ve got mine.