The Footie Thread

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Orikoru

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The previous Portugal manager had started to ease him out and was getting stick, Martinez has brought him back in and since then Portugal have had their best ever qualifying campaign, 100% record, scored 36 goals, only conceded 2.

Portugese fans are very happy with both Ronaldo playing and the way Martinez has started.
I don't think there's anything wrong with him being in the team, they just have to play in a way that gets the best out of him. This isn't prime Ronaldo, he's adjusted his game to play as an out-and-out striker. He's still very good in the air, you'd almost want to use him as an Alan Shearer / Van Nistelrooy type player. Don't get him involved in build-up, just make sure he's in the box.


I hate the sliding in the corners ,the laces on their boots really damages the grass.
I spend a lot of time repairing them .

Was talking to a striker the other day and he said he “dosnt do it anymore” because the grass and mud gets caught in his laces and he could misshit the ball.
Always reminds me of this:


😂
 

Orikoru

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Still doesn’t really answer the question though. Yep, I know a player is elated and celebratory - massively so. Yep, I know it is likey to be reactionary. Leaping about I can see; shouting, crying, yep; hugging, clapping, gesturing etc - that too. But I have never seen how/why pulling off your shirt fits into that kind of spontaneous action?
I know exactly what you mean. To say it's instinctive doesn't make sense, where would the instinct to remove your clothes when celebrating be born from?? It wouldn't occur to most normal people. Instinctive actions are running, punching the air, hugging someone, maybe jumping, that sort of thing.
 

PaulMdj

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I don't think there's anything wrong with him being in the team, they just have to play in a way that gets the best out of him. This isn't prime Ronaldo, he's adjusted his game to play as an out-and-out striker. He's still very good in the air, you'd almost want to use him as an Alan Shearer / Van Nistelrooy type player. Don't get him involved in build-up, just make sure he's in the box.
Totally agree, him just being in the pitch is going to make defences worry.

It was like people moaning about Kane the other night, he’s a World Class striker who can feed of a supply, he got very little against Serbia, then when he gets frustrated and drops deep, people moan he’s getting in the way of the midfield.
 

Lord Tyrion

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Totally agree, him just being in the pitch is going to make defences worry.

It was like people moaning about Kane the other night, he’s a World Class striker who can feed of a supply, he got very little against Serbia, then when he gets frustrated and drops deep, people moan he’s getting in the way of the midfield.
That's true though. There were also times towards the end of the game when the midfield had it, looked up for Kane, and he was either alongside or behind them. He needs to stay high, not drop deep. It doesn't matter how frustrated he gets, that isn't his job.
 

Orikoru

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That's true though. There were also times towards the end of the game when the midfield had it, looked up for Kane, and he was either alongside or behind them. He needs to stay high, not drop deep. It doesn't matter how frustrated he gets, that isn't his job.
I don't really believe you can curb the natural instincts of a player. The best players in the world play their own game and it's the manager's job to create a system that works. If Kane drops deep, which we know he likes to do, then Bellingham should be running beyond him and getting into the box, like he does regularly for Real Madrid. It's just a question of balance. If you ask Kane to play like Shearer he's just going to be frustrated constantly. Telling Kane to stop dropping deep for the ball would be like telling Robben to stop cutting inside, or Beckham to stop putting crosses in, or Gerrard to stop shooting from distance. It's just not going to happen.
 
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Pin-seeker

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Still doesn’t really answer the question though. Yep, I know a player is elated and celebratory - massively so. Yep, I know it is likey to be reactionary. Leaping about I can see; shouting, crying, yep; hugging, clapping, gesturing etc - that too. But I have never seen how/why pulling off your shirt fits into that kind of spontaneous action?
It’s vanity & a stupid way to pick up a card.
Ronaldo & Salah probably whip their shirts off to celebrate getting a double yolker,any excuse.
 

PaulMdj

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That's true though. There were also times towards the end of the game when the midfield had it, looked up for Kane, and he was either alongside or behind them. He needs to stay high, not drop deep. It doesn't matter how frustrated he gets, that isn't his job.
But any forward needs to be given chances, ie, Bowen’s cross, if any forward isn’t getting the ball they will look to get involved.

It’s alright maintaing possession or passing backwards, but we have (possibly) the best CF in the world and we aren’t using him.

People saying Kane should of been subbed, what difference woukd it make if his replacement isn’t been given the chances.🤷‍♂️
 

Arthur Wedge

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Still doesn’t really answer the question though. Yep, I know a player is elated and celebratory - massively so. Yep, I know it is likey to be reactionary. Leaping about I can see; shouting, crying, yep; hugging, clapping, gesturing etc - that too. But I have never seen how/why pulling off your shirt fits into that kind of spontaneous action?

There was an article about it a while back - the first person that did it just did it out of jubilation and wanted to show the fans the shirt being waved because the fans waved the shirts and scarves in the same manner

Since then some have done it to show messages on tops etc
 

Lord Tyrion

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I don't really believe you can curb the natural instincts of a player. The best players in the world play their own game and it's the manager's job to create a system that works. If Kane drops deep, which we know he likes to do, then Bellingham should be running beyond him and getting into the box, like he does regularly for Real Madrid. It's just a question of balance. If you ask Kane to play like Shearer he's just going to be frustrated constantly. Telling Kane to stopping dropping deep for the ball would be like telling Robben to stop cutting inside, or Beckham to stop putting crosses in, or Gerrard to stop shooting from distance. It's just not going to happen.
All those examples were assets to their game though. Kane dropping deep because he is frustrated is to the detriment of the team. If he can't stop that...............
 

Lord Tyrion

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But any forward needs to be given chances, ie, Bowen’s cross, if any forward isn’t getting the ball they will look to get involved.

It’s alright maintaing possession or passing backwards, but we have (possibly) the best CF in the world and we aren’t using him.

People saying Kane should of been subbed, what difference woukd it make if his replacement isn’t been given the chances.🤷‍♂️
If that sub would have led the line then it would have been a smart move. I think we all agree that England dropped way too deep in the second half and that has nothing to do with Kane. Not being there as an outlet was his issue though. Someone like Toney might have done that role better, allowed the midfield to feed off him, run past him. Kane was too deep for that to happen. Toney couldn't have done more with the lack of chances but maybe his hold up play, being higher up, may have created other chances? We will never know but I don't like the lead striker coming so deep.
 
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Orikoru

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All those examples were assets to their game though. Kane dropping deep because he is frustrated is to the detriment of the team. If he can't stop that...............
No it isn't. He has world class vision and passing as well, so there's nothing wrong with him being involved in build-up play. At Spurs he got countless assists this way as Son and (in earlier years) Dele knew to make runs beyond him. It really isn't rocket surgery.
 

Arthur Wedge

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If that sub would have led the line then it would have been a smart move. I think we all agree that England dropped way too deep in the second half and that has nothing to do with Kane. Not being there as an outlet was his issue though. Someone like Toney might have done that role better, allowed the midfield to feed off him, run past him. Kane was too deep for that to happen. Toney couldn't have done more with the lack of chances but maybe his hold up play, being higher up, may have created other chances? We will never know but I don't like the lead striker coming so deep.

Having either Watkins or Toney instead of Kane would have given more of a focal point up front and someone looking to get on the end of things - Kane dropping deep into an already crowded area is an issue for England and has been for a couple of years now

He needs to day higher or they play as a two with Watkins
 

Arthur Wedge

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No it isn't. He has world class vision and passing as well, so there's nothing wrong with him being involved in build-up play. At Spurs he got countless assists this way as Son and (in earlier years) Dele knew to make runs beyond him. It really isn't rocket surgery.
He doesn’t need to get involved in the build up play when there are players behind that can create for him - he is dropping deep too much now and when wider players have the ball he isn’t there to be found

He dropping deep is causing issues for the team

If he stayed higher more he would get a lot more chances and score more goals
 

Lord Tyrion

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No it isn't. He has world class vision and passing as well, so there's nothing wrong with him being involved in build-up play. At Spurs he got countless assists this way as Son and (in earlier years) Dele knew to make runs beyond him. It really isn't rocket surgery.
That's fine if other players are making those runs, particularly earlier in a match, but if they are not then it is pointless. Equally, when the midfield has dropped deep, obvious to everyone the other night, who is he going to be passing to? If Gordon has been on the pitch then that might have been a good move but he wasn't.
 

Orikoru

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The problem is not Kane it's the fact we have no width at all. Kane drops deep, Bellingham should be running beyond him. We have Foden coming inside trying to play where Bellingham is. Our left-back is right-footed and cuts inside. Saka on the right flank cuts inside. It's not just Kane, everyone is trying to play in the same area. When Kane gets no service from out wide (because there is nobody out wide), he goes looking to create something himself. Just like Rooney used to do, so it's not like this is a new thing for England. We've had 20 years to sort this out. 😄
 

Lord Tyrion

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The problem is not Kane it's the fact we have no width at all. Kane drops deep, Bellingham should be running beyond him. We have Foden coming inside trying to play where Bellingham is. Our left-back is right-footed and cuts inside. Saka on the right flank cuts inside. It's not just Kane, everyone is trying to play in the same area. When Kane gets no service from out wide (because there is nobody out wide), he goes looking to create something himself. Just like Rooney used to do, so it's not like this is a new thing for England. We've had 20 years to sort this out. 😄
We need some of those Georgian wingers from last night :D
 

Orikoru

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That's fine if other players are making those runs, particularly earlier in a match, but if they are not then it is pointless. Equally, when the midfield has dropped deep, obvious to everyone the other night, who is he going to be passing to? If Gordon has been on the pitch then that might have been a good move but he wasn't.
I just don't understand why Kane always takes all the flack for an entire system not working. Why is it his fault that other players don't make forward runs?

Edit: Agree that now we've talked this out, it would make sense to give Gordon some playing time, as the only player who actually likes playing wide.
 

Lord Tyrion

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I just don't understand why Kane always takes all the flack for an entire system not working. Why is it his fault that other players don't make forward runs?
It is not his fault but he has to recognise it is not happening and deal with it. He also needs to recognise that we need him as an outlet at times and if he isn't there, he isn't doing the team any favours.
 

Arthur Wedge

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The problem is not Kane it's the fact we have no width at all. Kane drops deep, Bellingham should be running beyond him. We have Foden coming inside trying to play where Bellingham is. Our left-back is right-footed and cuts inside. Saka on the right flank cuts inside. It's not just Kane, everyone is trying to play in the same area. When Kane gets no service from out wide (because there is nobody out wide), he goes looking to create something himself. Just like Rooney used to do, so it's not like this is a new thing for England. We've had 20 years to sort this out. 😄

When Rooney used to drop deep to get on the ball the team was set up as a 4-4-2 and most of the time he had Owen being high

players like Beckham were looking to get balls in the box but there was also someone high

You can’t mould the whole team around Kane and his desire to drop deep

It only works if the two wide players are looking to get in the box in the same way Liverpool did with Salah and Mane with Firmino dropping deep or you have midfield runners

Again that’s not set up to get the best out of as many of the top players

If Kane can’t stay high then the manager needs to bring on someone that can
 
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