Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
Not for the Welsh
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
4LEX
Well-known member
It really is amazing how badly such a huge club can be run.
After interviewing numerous managers behind his back they've ended up bottling the decision and sticking with ETH, on the basis of one decent performance. It doesn't look like a healthy situation and the actions of a club that knows what it's doing.
I expect his new deal will have less power on signings and reduce him to simply a coach with a much lower release clause. It looks very much like he's now a glorified caretaker until someone they fancy becomes available. I'd be really concerned because Southgate is the main target and he'll be on the market in July, after which he'll take a break and all it will take is a poor start to the season from ETH and you know what will happen
On the plus side, it will be good to see how ETH does when there's no excuses. Will he go back to the style of football he played all season which was the main reason for the low finish, where they were actually fortunate not to finish even lower. The xG table has them at 16th and that's where they deserved to be based on quality of football and other metrics. It was the individual class of certain players that dragged them to 8th IMO. Or will he stick with the well organised but negative football they ground out wins with at the end of the season? Sit deep, press lower and hit on the counter. That football was called dinosaur football by Man Utd fans when Mourinho played it and also when Ole carried it on. If he does that I'm sure they can finish Top 4 and challenge in the cups but I'd question if that's progress or the actions of an elite club with ambition.
It really is amazing how badly such a huge club can be run.
After interviewing numerous managers behind his back they've ended up bottling the decision and sticking with ETH, on the basis of one decent performance. It doesn't look like a healthy situation and the actions of a club that knows what it's doing.
I expect his new deal will have less power on signings and reduce him to simply a coach with a much lower release clause. It looks very much like he's now a glorified caretaker until someone they fancy becomes available. I'd be really concerned because Southgate is the main target and he'll be on the market in July, after which he'll take a break and all it will take is a poor start to the season from ETH and you know what will happen
On the plus side, it will be good to see how ETH does when there's no excuses. Will he go back to the style of football he played all season which was the main reason for the low finish, where they were actually fortunate not to finish even lower. The xG table has them at 16th and that's where they deserved to be based on quality of football and other metrics. It was the individual class of certain players that dragged them to 8th IMO. Or will he stick with the well organised but negative football they ground out wins with at the end of the season? Sit deep, press lower and hit on the counter. That football was called dinosaur football by Man Utd fans when Mourinho played it and also when Ole carried it on. If he does that I'm sure they can finish Top 4 and challenge in the cups but I'd question if that's progress or the actions of an elite club with ambition.
For goodness sake. You think INEOS kept the manager on the basis of one result? Really?
BubbaP
Occasional Player of Golf
Was in London today, think it was at Whitechapel when the tube doors opened there were 4 guys on the platform in kilts, tinnys on the goUnbelievable
We need the support of the whole of the UK
Guessed there were awaiting more of the party before travelling out.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd give your expert opinion as another non Man Utd fan who knows bestIt really is amazing how badly such a huge club can be run.
After interviewing numerous managers behind his back they've ended up bottling the decision and sticking with ETH, on the basis of one decent performance. It doesn't look like a healthy situation and the actions of a club that knows what it's doing.
I expect his new deal will have less power on signings and reduce him to simply a coach with a much lower release clause. It looks very much like he's now a glorified caretaker until someone they fancy becomes available. I'd be really concerned because Southgate is the main target and he'll be on the market in July, after which he'll take a break and all it will take is a poor start to the season from ETH and you know what will happen
On the plus side, it will be good to see how ETH does when there's no excuses. Will he go back to the style of football he played all season which was the main reason for the low finish, where they were actually fortunate not to finish even lower. The xG table has them at 16th and that's where they deserved to be based on quality of football and other metrics. It was the individual class of certain players that dragged them to 8th IMO. Or will he stick with the well organised but negative football they ground out wins with at the end of the season? Sit deep, press lower and hit on the counter. That football was called dinosaur football by Man Utd fans when Mourinho played it and also when Ole carried it on. If he does that I'm sure they can finish Top 4 and challenge in the cups but I'd question if that's progress or the actions of an elite club with ambition.
I think the FA Cup is more than 1 game? Injuries were not so bad in ETH's first season. Would that be an occasion you could say he doesn't have that excuse? If so, INEOS don't need to guess the future. They could just look to his 1st season, see how he did.
It’s amazing on many premier league managers and coaches are forum members. Bit like asking a plumber to explain brain surgery.
4LEX
Well-known member
You wanted him sacked towards the end of the season and that was before the Palace game!
If you had lost the final, are you seriously telling me you think he'd still be there?
PaulMdj
Well-known member
No dilemma, it’s an easy one, Come on Germany. ABSIt’s also Germanywhat a dilemma
My patience was running out and the straw which broke the camel’s back was the Coventry game. But on reflection I could see the bigger picture.
There are doubtless multiple reasons INEOS opted to keep ten Hag. And I suspect, in addition to perhaps accepting that this season he really hasn’t had a fair crack of the whip, very near the top of the list was the realisation that sacking him would be a PR disaster.
I’m a match going fan. Not as often these days as in seasons past, but nevertheless still reasonably regular. And I’ll tell you for free there is nothing like the toxicity around the club now that I have seen towards the end of the LVG and Mourinho tenures. The fans are still largely behind ten Hag because they, as match going fans rather than armchair critics, understand just what he has had to contend with.
4LEX
Well-known member
I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd give your expert opinion as another non Man Utd fan who knows best
I think the FA Cup is more than 1 game? Injuries were not so bad in ETH's first season. Would that be an occasion you could say he doesn't have that excuse? If so, INEOS don't need to guess the future. They could just look to his 1st season, see how he did.
I know my stuff mate and I'm free to give my opinion aren't I?
The worst injuries were defenders (Shaw and Martinez) and bizarrely led to him playing a more attack minded and open style. Towards the end of the season he switched totally and got some results, that shows it was down to tactics and not injuries. If you want to hide behind the injuries no problem.
We can sit back and see what happens next season as I'm sure it will be good viewing!
Arthur Wedge
Well-known member
Unbelievable
We need the support of the whole of the UK
It’s tough
Scotland or Germany
If only there was a way for both to lose
PaulMdj
Well-known member
Bit like a Northern Irishman giving his opinion on England.I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd give your expert opinion as another non Man Utd fan who knows best
I think the FA Cup is more than 1 game? Injuries were not so bad in ETH's first season. Would that be an occasion you could say he doesn't have that excuse? If so, INEOS don't need to guess the future. They could just look to his 1st season, see how he did.
4LEX
Well-known member
You talk about the bigger picture but what is that? In two years can you actually explain what his style is and how he's going to play next season? Managers like Arteta and Klopp, even Pep had a slow start but you could see within a few months what they were trying to do and how they wanted to play.
What's your expectations for next season? Given he's had two years, won a few trophies and spent nearly £500m? Throw in he's now got a supposedly top class set up behind him involved in the transfers? Surely a title challenge?
Swango1980
Well-known member
You blissfully missed the part where I said I'm happy for other fans to have opinions.Bit like a Northern Irishman giving his opinion on England.
Of course, you also missed the part where I said I actually am a fan of England.
Don't let that ruin you trying to make a cheap point of course
Swango1980
Well-known member
If ETH was not manager, and they got in Poch or Tuchel, what would YOU expect?
A title challenge?
4LEX
Well-known member
No because using your logic it takes three years for that?
Personally I would expect as a minimum a progressive and set style of play. That's more important than results to start but then there has to be results and a clear sign of progression. ETH has done it backwards, no style of play and won a few cups very fortunately. Same question to you. What's ETH's style and what will he play next season? Formation and tactics wise? If he's such a good manager and on the right track, this will be very easy for you to answer and we can use it to judge next season on
I’m not going to detail the bigger picture yet again. It’s been done here to death.
Next season? A decent challenge for top four, and consistency in performances. I want to know what sort of United are likely to turn up each week, rather than having to wait half an hour to have some sort of clue. If they could entertain me as well I’d be delighted.
I don’t ask for much. Never have. I was always happy enough when we won the odd cup provided I came away from matches having actually enjoyed 90 minutes of entertainment. For years I’ve just left feeling angry and let down. The low point for me was a home match against Norwich just before Christmas in 2015, during LVG’s tenure. Never before have I felt so angry at a football match.
I’ve not felt like that so much as simply despondent during the last three or four years. Despondent at having owners who don’t care what goes on for 90 minutes each weekend as long as the tills continue to ring. The club lacks identity on and off the pitch and it’s so sad to see it.
And it’s why I have to agree with so much of what Swango says. A huge exodus of players who came for the money, many of whom should never, ever have been signed. Marquee signings, many of them, made to pacify the fans and sell shirts to earn more cash, but with little clue how to integrate them into a team. Di Maria for LVG was perhaps the most ridiculous signing I have ever seen, but it illustrates the point perfectly.
But I can see the beginnings of what ten Hag is trying to do. Investing in young talent for a start. Putting his faith in Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund and other youngsters is a great place to start. Integrate those players with some sensible signings and there is much to look forward to.
But that future cannot include the likes of Casemiro and Eriksen. The manager also has a huge call to make regarding Antony. If he persists with him it’s a mistake - he surely has to concede his signing was a mistake, allow the club to cut its losses and move on. The signs were there towards the end of the season that ten Hag has lost faith.
And then there’s Rashford. For me, it’s best for club and player if he goes. He needs a fresh challenge, and sadly his whole demeanour last season summed up the general malaise around the club. The fans have had enough of him. Unless, of course, he can erase the last twelve months from the memory banks and remind himself why he plays football.
A title challenge? Way too soon. But the club cannot accept another season of turgid performances. As I’ve said multiple times now, if he has a largely fit squad to choose from, and gets the incoming and outgoing deals right this summer, then that is the time to judge him. If there isn’t an improvement the manager probably won’t last the season. But given the budget I am hearing of is only £50m plus money generated from player sales, it’s quite clear there needs to be significant numbers shown the door.
4LEX
Well-known member
Mate you're a real fan and I respect that.
I agree with a lot of what you say but the manager is always the biggest factor at a club and even you as a matchgoing fan can't explain how he's trying to play or what he'll do going forward. That is a huge red flag, no pun intended. How can you foresee progress when you don't know what he'll do?
I personally think the young talent was nothing to do with him, anyone would've given them game time. Jose brought through Rashford and McTominay both of whom are still key players now and he's got a real bad rep as someone who doesn't give youth a chance.
A budget of £50m plus player sales is most likely down to his bad signings over the past two years though. Even then you'll still raise a large amount from the sales of Sancho, Rashford and Casemiro. You're talking £50m off the wage bill too.
Swango1980
Well-known member
I never said it takes 3 years for that. What I did say is that when Rangnick was in charge, many said it could take minimum 3 years just for United to put pressure on the top. Bur it could take even longer. Utd had so so much work to do, whilst other clubs where at such a high level, and looking to build themselves.No because using your logic it takes three years for that?
Personally I would expect as a minimum a progressive and set style of play. That's more important than results to start but then there has to be results and a clear sign of progression. ETH has done it backwards, no style of play and won a few cups very fortunately. Same question to you. What's ETH's style and what will he play next season? Formation and tactics wise? If he's such a good manager and on the right track, this will be very easy for you to answer and we can use it to judge next season on
I hear many Man Utd fans expressing they are delighted ETH is staying. Sure, there will also be some who want him gone. But you always get those type of fans, like the Liverpool fans who wanted Klopp gone last season. There are so many Utd fans that are happy he is staying, they can't all be mad or stupid. They want Utd to do well, and have obviously seen enough to want him to stay.
That being said, unlike the certainty you give that he is awful, these Utd fans aren't saying with certainty ETH will be the Messiah. Only that he deserves to be given more time, supported, and he may continue to push Utd forwards compared to where we were 2 years ago. I certainly wouldn't start screaming he will deliver Man Utd the title. I wouldn't say that with any manager, even if Pep joined Utd. It would be absurd.
There seems to be so much wrong with the club, 90% none of us will probably hear about as it goes on behind the scenes. I think INEOS would do well to review all of that, see where they can make improvements, and after a year or so if they truly want to bring in their own manager, do it under more stable conditions. Not immediately after the current manager had just won the FA Cup and looks to still have significant support among fans. That is just suicidal.
I hope that ETH then has the players mostly available for a reasonable time next season to demonstrate the way he wants to play. Although I still think there could be 3 or 4 players at anytime that just can't, and that is too many for a team to carry and still play the preferred style. Although, I'm not as obsessed about "style" as everyone else seems to be. I just want to see a team that is capable of playing nice attacking football, but is capable of playing defensive counter attacking football when needed. In the Fergie years, Utd never had a single style of play. They just entertained, and were up for the battle when facing tough challenges. Clearly, Utd need to make themselves much tougher to break down. And they need more firepower. I hope to see improvements in both areas next season
