The Footie Thread

[RichA]

I'm not a Southgate fan. Managers can't win tournaments, only lose them with poor selections and substitutions.
The winners usually have a bit of luck and one or two star players hitting the ground running or building up performances into the knockout stage.
Hopefully, he gives the right players (Foden and Bellingham) the position to show their talent and Kane stays on his feet and remembers what his one job in the team is.
I'm pessimistic but hopeful.

 

[sunshine]

I think the difference is between Pep and Klopp against GS, is that both the former would give youth players the chance if they thought they were ready and good enough. GS will never do that, and will always revert to his old fav's. As a result younger players cannot see a way into the team, so why should they bother to try.

Sorry this is rubbish. Firstly you have no idea that Pep and Klopp would pick young players in international tournaments.
Secondly, Southgate has consistently picked loads of young players. Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Mainoo, I could keep going…

 

[sunshine]

I watch a fair bit of Spanish football as well as the Prem & Championship. The Prem has more strength in depth but has more foreign players. For all of saying England can/should have win/won. England don’t underachieve, they play to their level. Yes, there’s some dire performances but there’s also some, not so pretty, wins.

England aren’t a good watch but most of the time that is as good as they are. Yes, there’s some exceptional players in that squad but 3-4, at most, exceptional players don’t make a good team when you look at some of the others.

Surely after seeing a certain level of performances year after year it’s time we realise that is what England is. Could a different manager/style achieve more? Possibly maybe but I doubt there’d be much improvement. England just don’t have the players. I’d rather watch Spain, France(maybe) & Italy(definitely).

Finally someone with a balanced point of view and a sense of perspective.

 

[sunshine]

In 2018 -

England were beaten twice by Belgium

Managed to just about beat Tunisia in the last minute

Penalties against Colombia , decent game against Sweden and then bottled against Croatia after going into the lead


As across all the tournaments- Southgate’s England has fell short when it matters against the top teams

Same in 2020 , same in 2022

Southgate is better than Hodgson as England manager but that’s a low bar

That’s the reality of world cups. Teams like Colombia make themselves hard to beat, the winners generally scrape through with only one or two stellar performances.

I think Southgate is our best manager since Hoddle.

 

[Rlburnside]

I watch a fair bit of Spanish football as well as the Prem & Championship. The Prem has more strength in depth but has more foreign players. For all of saying England can/should have win/won. England don’t underachieve, they play to their level. Yes, there’s some dire performances but there’s also some, not so pretty, wins.

England aren’t a good watch but most of the time that is as good as they are. Yes, there’s some exceptional players in that squad but 3-4, at most, exceptional players don’t make a good team when you look at some of the others.

Surely after seeing a certain level of performances year after year it’s time we realise that is what England is. Could a different manager/style achieve more? Possibly maybe but I doubt there’d be much improvement. England just don’t have the players. I’d rather watch Spain, France(maybe) & Italy(definitely).

Some good points some I agree with but imo England have underachieved in the past, the final against Italy was a massive disappointment which imo was down to Southgates tactics and substitutions, that game should have had England winning a major trophy.

 

[sunshine]

Finally a fair and decent post, the PL is known as the best in the World because it attracts the best players from around the World, how many Englishman actuall make the first XI for PL Clubs?

Let’s say Southgate goes, who replaces him? The FA have gone back to Englishmen after the foreign managers failed, I can’t think of one English manager that would be ready or better than Southgate…sadly.

I think a lot of people believe the Sky hype that the premier league is the best in the world, and therefore believe all the English players are the best in the world because they are playing in England. But English clubs don’t win the champions league every year

But the very best players don’t come to England, or they leave if they are already here: Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, etc. In the last 50 years there have only been 2 ballon d’or winners from the premier league.

 

[PaulMdj]

Unsure what you are getting at?

Not getting at anything, simply stating fact.

Everyone likes to tell the English what’s wrong with England team, then celebrate when we lose! ABE

Jealousy, bitterness, sick of the English attitude? Don’t know, but I do find we English take far less interest in other Nations as they do.

 

[Swango1980]

Not getting at anything, simply stating fact.

Everyone likes to tell the English what’s wrong with England team, then celebrate when we lose! ABE

Jealousy, bitterness, sick of the English attitude? Don’t know, but I do find we English take far less interest in other Nations as they do.

I think you are getting a bit over sensitive there.

I'm N Irish and I've already said in here before that I support England (obviously support N Ireland as well). Many of my N Irish mates also support England. Sure, there are many in my country who also hate England. There are few who sit on the fence.

Perhaps it is true that most of the Scottish and Welsh hate the English? But, in N Ireland, where politics have been extremely heated between being Irish or British, then you will get a lot of people who will support England probably because they have that connection to being British. Plus, we get pretty much the same media exposure as the English (TV etc), so growing up kids can get influenced by watching PL and supporting big PL players at the clubs they support going on to represent England.

However, on Southgate, my view is no different to what many English people are saying. I believe England have a great set of players, not matched by manager. They may well be favourites based on players they have, albeit their overall odds are probably still a good bit under 50%. So, I wouldn't demand Southgate must win, because luck always plays a part. But, I do wish he'd be a braver manager, so even if England do go out, their fans can hold their heads high, know they did everything they could to win, and it was just luck that went against them

 

[PaulMdj]

I think you are getting a bit over sensitive there.

I'm N Irish and I've already said in here before that I support England (obviously support N Ireland as well). Many of my N Irish mates also support England. Sure, there are many in my country who also hate England. There are few who sit on the fence.

Perhaps it is true that most of the Scottish and Welsh hate the English? But, in N Ireland, where politics have been extremely heated between being Irish or British, then you will get a lot of people who will support England probably because they have that connection to being British. Plus, we get pretty much the same media exposure as the English (TV etc), so growing up kids can get influenced by watching PL and supporting big PL players at the clubs they support going on to represent England.

However, on Southgate, my view is no different to what many English people are saying. I believe England have a great set of players, not matched by manager. They may well be favourites based on players they have, albeit their overall odds are probably still a good bit under 50%. So, I wouldn't demand Southgate must win, because luck always plays a part. But, I do wish he'd be a braver manager, so even if England do go out, their fans can hold their heads high, know they did everything they could to win, and it was just luck that went against them

Not over sensitive, just take what supporters of other Nations say with a pinch salt.

No different to when you get the plastic fans saying, my first Team is …… and my 2nd Team is …..

 

[Swango1980]

Not over sensitive, just take what supporters of other Nations say with a pinch salt.

No different to when you get the plastic fans saying, my first Team is …… and my 2nd Team is …..

I guess it is a comforting view to have when people have opinions you don't agree with

 

[PaulMdj]

I guess it is a comforting view to have when people have opinions you don't agree with

Nice try, more than happy for any English person to hold the complete opposite view to me when discussing England, none of us have the answer.

Anyone else? In one ear and out the other.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think a lot of people believe the Sky hype that the premier league is the best in the world, and therefore believe all the English players are the best in the world because they are playing in England. But English clubs don’t win the champions league every year

But the very best players don’t come to England, or they leave if they are already here: Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, etc. In the last 50 years there have only been 2 ballon d’or winners from the premier league.

I really would not be judging anything by where the Ballo d'Or winners play. One of the most useless guides out there.

The PL is possibly the most exciting league, not necessarily the best, although certainly in the top 3 even by that metric. Unquestionably there, as with all leagues due to the multi national set up. No one would ever say it is there due to English players alone.

 

[Neilds]

What criteria are people using when they state that the Premier League is the best in the world?

It is usually won by the same couple of teams so does that only make it on a par with the Scottish Premiership?
It pays the most money but this just leads to clubs 'bending' the rules, is this a good thing?
VAR is panned every game, should the best league have a system that works?

 

[clubchamp98]

Well if Englands team played in the PL where would they finish.?

Given they would play together all the time and training time I think they would win it after the first season together.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Was watching a re-run of Italia 90 on Sky documentaries and I had forgotten just how much the press had the knives out for Robson and how morale in the camp was so low going into the tournament. It seems to almost echo the build up to this tournament and hopefully this side can find a similar way to rally as a unit and perform.

 

[clubchamp98]

Was watching a re-run of Italia 90 on Sky documentaries and I had forgotten just how much the press had the knives out for Robson and how morale in the camp was so low going into the tournament. It seems to almost echo the build up to this tournament and hopefully this side can find a similar way to rally as a unit and perform.

Yes and just how bad the violence was. Shocking!

 

[Swango1980]

Nice try, more than happy for any English person to hold the complete opposite view to me when discussing England, none of us have the answer.

Anyone else? In one ear and out the other.

Again, fair enough if that is how you want to view things. It is a comforting way to look at it, when you can just ignore a load of views without any critique at all on why the person may have that view. I also find it extremely flawed as well, because some of the most anti-English people I know are actually English people. Guys who support an English club, but hate international football and really hate England. Often feels funny in one of my whatsapp groups, where I seem to be the one who sometimes needs to give England a bit of credit after a barrage of abuse dished out by a couple of the English chaps in the group.

And then there are English people who don't really like football at all, but like other sports like rugby. I think 100% of the guys like that I know hate the England football team without question. Although I can be a lot more dismissive of them, as they don't really know much about football at all.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

What criteria are people using when they state that the Premier League is the best in the world?

It is usually won by the same couple of teams so does that only make it on a par with the Scottish Premiership?
It pays the most money but this just leads to clubs 'bending' the rules, is this a good thing?
VAR is panned every game, should the best league have a system that works?

Since 2010 it has been won by Man Utd, Man City, Leicester, Chelsea, Liverpool. 5 different teams.

The Spanish league has been won by 3 teams, Real, Atletico and Barcelona

The German league by 3 teams, Dortmund, Munich and Leverskusen just joining the list this season.

I think those would be the best 3 leagues, if you want to throw in Italy as well, they have had 4 winners during this same period.

I think by this metric, the PL stands up pretty well. Not at all comparable with Scotland.

Leagues only attract big players with big money. It's never been truer but has always been the way. Find me a league, Germany possibly excepted, where clubs have not bent the financial rules. with big money at stake, it's what happens sadly.

VAR gets panned in every league. Sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly. It is the way of sports media, particularly now that they have dedicated sports channels to fill.

 

[Swango1980]

What criteria are people using when they state that the Premier League is the best in the world?

It is usually won by the same couple of teams so does that only make it on a par with the Scottish Premiership?
It pays the most money but this just leads to clubs 'bending' the rules, is this a good thing?
VAR is panned every game, should the best league have a system that works?

It's an interesting question. I guess if you base it on the money invested in it, then there is a strong case it is the best in the world, as it is most investible?

I don't think it is anywhere near on par with the Scottish League in terms of competitiveness for the title. In Scotland, only 2 clubs can win the league, and for a while it was literally only one. Every league pretty much goes in cycles, so it isn't uncommon for one or 2 teams to dominate for a good number of years. But, as start of the season, there are a hell of a lot more clubs than 2, who feel they could give themselves a chance of the title, or at least compete. There is hope. Going into next season, it won't be just City or Arsenal fans that think they are the only ones in contention. Liverpool, Man Utd and Chelsea fans will have some hope that they can finally resolve their issues from previous seasons, and push towards the top. Spurs fans will think another season under their manager will push them up the table. I guess Villa fans will hope they can improve and wonder if that will take them closer to top? Do Newcastle fans think they can get past their injury problems and get up there? For some fans, it may only be a glimmer of hope, while others think that their club should do much better. Whereas in Scotland, I don't think any fans think they have any chance of winning the league outside the top 2?

But then, ask a Spanish person what league they think is best in world, I guess they'll say La Liga. Italian fans may say Serie A. Some of their reasons may be flawed, but other reasons may make a good point. In terms of quality, the Premier League might have become the best a year or so ago, difficult to argue. But, it is fine margins, and what was true a year or 2 ago might not be true today. There are a lot of quality players and teams in other nations. I just think fans get biased based on what they watch week in, week out, and remember all the great highlights of the best players in that league. But, there will be top players in the other leagues producing their own brilliant highlights reels, we just don't talk about them as most don't see them regularly.

 

[clubchamp98]

Since 2010 it has been won by Man Utd, Man City, Leicester, Chelsea, Liverpool. 5 different teams.

The Spanish league has been won by 3 teams, Real, Atletico and Barcelona

The German league by 3 teams, Dortmund, Munich and Leverskusen just joining the list this season.

I think those would be the best 3 leagues, if you want to throw in Italy as well, they have had 4 winners during this same period.

I think by this metric, the PL stands up pretty well. Not at all comparable with Scotland.

Leagues only attract big players with big money. It's never been truer but has always been the way. Find me a league, Germany possibly excepted, where clubs have not bent the financial rules. with big money at stake, it's what happens sadly.

VAR gets panned in every league. Sometimes fairly, sometimes unfairly. It is the way of sports media, particularly now that they have dedicated sports channels to fill.

Wait until you get Saudi owners and start giving City a run for their money.

Just a tip , you better get a better legal team.