The Footie Thread

[Arthur Wedge]

Weren’t Belgium and Croatia above us in the World Rankings at the time?

I’ll be glad when Southgate has gone, but I’ve never been convinced that there was anyone better at the time he was appointed and we don’t exactly have a long list of mansgers waiting to replace him.

I don’t remember “our” Golden generation doing that well.

How many genuine World Class players do we actually have in the current squad, 3, maybe 4?

Not sure about the rankings - they are very “flimsy” - when looking at squads and players then whenever England come up against strong teams they fell short - especially in tournaments but that’s standard England

As for players

The top class players there have are

Walker
TAA
Rice
Bellingham
Kane
Foden

They are players that the top teams would want

I think only France have a stronger squad

 

[Pin-seeker]

Well a lot of players have done that as soon as they put an England shirt on.

Bellingham is the opposite he seems to grow!

Agreed.
I wasn’t really having a pop at Foden (probably looked that way).
He’s just too good not to do it at a major tournament.

 

[PaulMdj]

I watch a fair bit of Spanish football as well as the Prem & Championship. The Prem has more strength in depth but has more foreign players. For all of saying England can/should have win/won. England don’t underachieve, they play to their level. Yes, there’s some dire performances but there’s also some, not so pretty, wins.

England aren’t a good watch but most of the time that is as good as they are. Yes, there’s some exceptional players in that squad but 3-4, at most, exceptional players don’t make a good team when you look at some of the others.

Surely after seeing a certain level of performances year after year it’s time we realise that is what England is. Could a different manager/style achieve more? Possibly maybe but I doubt there’d be much improvement. England just don’t have the players. I’d rather watch Spain, France(maybe) & Italy(definitely).

Finally a fair and decent post, the PL is known as the best in the World because it attracts the best players from around the World, how many Englishman actuall make the first XI for PL Clubs?

Let’s say Southgate goes, who replaces him? The FA have gone back to Englishmen after the foreign managers failed, I can’t think of one English manager that would be ready or better than Southgate…sadly.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Not sure about the rankings - they are very “flimsy” - when looking at squads and players then whenever England come up against strong teams they fell short - especially in tournaments but that’s standard England

As for players

The top class players there have are

Walker
TAA
Rice
Bellingham
Kane
Foden

They are players that the top teams would want

I think only France have a stronger squad

Got Trent in there but no Palmer

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I watch a fair bit of Spanish football as well as the Prem & Championship. The Prem has more strength in depth but has more foreign players. For all of saying England can/should have win/won. England don’t underachieve, they play to their level. Yes, there’s some dire performances but there’s also some, not so pretty, wins.

England aren’t a good watch but most of the time that is as good as they are. Yes, there’s some exceptional players in that squad but 3-4, at most, exceptional players don’t make a good team when you look at some of the others.

Surely after seeing a certain level of performances year after year it’s time we realise that is what England is. Could a different manager/style achieve more? Possibly maybe but I doubt there’d be much improvement. England just don’t have the players. I’d rather watch Spain, France(maybe) & Italy(definitely).

I would say its more that when players play for England, they don't seem allowed to play their normal way. Whether the manager insists on his way, or the fear of failure looms large I dont know.
It's blatantly obvious the PL teams are only so good because of the foreign players. Obviously some English players will improve as a result, but there must also be an amount that think "they've made it and are so good" they cease to try and improve.

 

[PaulMdj]

Not sure about the rankings - they are very “flimsy” - when looking at squads and players then whenever England come up against strong teams they fell short - especially in tournaments but that’s standard England

As for players

The top class players there have are

Walker
TAA
Rice
Bellingham
Kane
Foden

They are players that the top teams would want

I think only France have a stronger squad

Big diference between Top Class and World Class imo, from your list I’d say Bellingham and Kane with the others having the potential, especially Rice, but they need to start doing it on the pitch instead of disappearing.

On paper there maybe stronger squads, but not stronger teams.

 

[clubchamp98]

Agreed.
I wasn’t really having a pop at Foden (probably looked that way).
He’s just too good not to do it at a major tournament.

Foden like many class players needs others around him to perform at City levels.
GS dosnt set his teams up like that imo.
Playing for City he always has three options with the movement they have.

England will never play like that under GS.

Only way is get Pep or Klopp in charge.
Probably the former for you

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Big diference between Top Class and World Class imo, from your list I’d say Bellingham and Kane with the others having the potential, especially Rice, but they need to start doing it on the pitch instead of disappearing.

On paper there maybe stronger squads, but not stronger teams.

When looking at the other squads there isn’t many littered with top class

World class is very subjective - many people have differing opinions on what is a world class player

England have the level of ability in that squad to beat anyone bar France who I think have the forward line that will destroy Englands back line

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Foden like many class players needs others around him to perform at City levels.
GS dosnt set his teams up like that imo.
Playing for City he always has three options with the movement they have.

England will never play like that under GS.

Only way is get Pep or Klopp in charge.
Probably the former for you

I think the difference is between Pep and Klopp against GS, is that both the former would give youth players the chance if they thought they were ready and good enough. GS will never do that, and will always revert to his old fav's. As a result younger players cannot see a way into the team, so why should they bother to try.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Foden like many class players needs others around him to perform at City levels.
GS dosnt set his teams up like that imo.
Playing for City he always has three options with the movement they have.

England will never play like that under GS.

Only way is get Pep or Klopp in charge.
Probably the former for you

Yeah a manager with one prem title & 2 2nds in 9 seasons wouldn’t excite me.
Finished with a 5th & 3rd WOW

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Yeah a manager with one prem title & 2 2nds in 9 seasons wouldn’t excite me.
Finished with a 5th & 3rd WOW

And how many has GS won, or placed higher than Klopp?

 

[clubchamp98]

Yeah a manager with one prem title & 2 2nds in 9 seasons wouldn’t excite me.
Finished with a 5th & 3rd WOW

Apart from Pep who’s busy who’s got a better record ?

 

[PaulMdj]

I think the difference is between Pep and Klopp against GS, is that both the former would give youth players the chance if they thought they were ready and good enough. GS will never do that, and will always revert to his old fav's. As a result younger players cannot see a way into the team, so why shoudl they bother to try.

You can’t compare Pep & Klopp to Southgate, his Club record is poor and they have no experience at International Level.

Nobody can say Pep or Klopp would be good National managers, they might be out of their depth constrained by 1 Nationality or no day to day involvement.

Which young players has Southgate not given a chance to?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

You can’t compare Pep & Klopp to Southgate, his Club record is poor and they have no experience at International Level.

Nobody can say Pep or Klopp would be good National managers, they might be out of their depth constrained by 1 Nationality or no day to day involvement.

Which young players has Southgate not given a chance to?

Perhaps not, but what you do know is that if Pep or Klopp were in charge they would be encouraging the players opn, giving them support on and off the pitch. GS just sits there twiddling his thumbs.

 

[clubchamp98]

You can’t compare Pep & Klopp to Southgate, his Club record is poor and they have no experience at International Level.

Nobody can say Pep or Klopp would be good National managers, they might be out of their depth constrained by 1 Nationality or no day to day involvement.

Which young players has Southgate not given a chance to?

Not comparing them to GS
Looking for a replacement.
Might suit them but we will never know , I can’t see either taking it!

 

[Hobbit]

You can’t compare Pep & Klopp to Southgate, his Club record is poor and they have no experience at International Level.

Nobody can say Pep or Klopp would be good National managers, they might be out of their depth constrained by 1 Nationality or no day to day involvement.

Which young players has Southgate not given a chance to?

And how many England players do they have in their squads? Both have a blend of some of the best in the world. Hell, if your recruitment team were bringing in the best in the world, you’re 75% towards looking good anyway.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Apart from Pep who’s busy who’s got a better record ?

Ranieri?

 

[Pin-seeker]

And how many has GS won, or placed higher than Klopp?

Never said I rated Southgate

 

[PaulMdj]

Perhaps not, but what you do know is that if Pep or Klopp were in charge they would be encouraging the players opn, giving them support on and off the pitch. GS just sits there twiddling his thumbs.

He doesn’t though, and in interviews pre and post tournament none of the current or ex-players have criticised him.

I’m sure by now someone would of.

 

[Swango1980]

I’m yet to hear anyone from the other Home Nations or a foreigner give England credit or want them to win.

Unsure what you are getting at?