The Footie Thread

[Orikoru]

Would hate to be Ten Hag right now. I'm sure he'd love with every fibre of his being to tell them to stick their job up the backsides, but of course would lose a handsome pay-off by doing so. So he'll just sit in limbo indefinitely.

 

[sunshine]

All those people slating Southgate have obviously forgotten what came before him. Bottom of our group in 2014 world cup and dismal performances in Euro 2016 that culminated in elimination to Iceland.

Southgate is not a master tactician but getting to a final and a semi is a decent turnaround.

The recent friendlies were just glorified training sessions. I expect the team to move through the gears in the group matches.

 

[sunshine]

Regarding the England squad... largely makes sense to me.

• Grealish has paid the price for going to City to sit on the bench, just like Kalvin Phillips and others before him.
• Maddison had a great start to the season but hasn't been as effective since returning from injury.
• I really hope Eze gets some game time - he is fearless and composed and willing to take a risk, just what we need to unlock defences in a tournament.
• I don't understand why Dier isn't in the squad. Could equally partner Stones or Rice as a second holding midfielder. I reckon if Bayern had made it to the CL final he would have been included. Also a mystery why Tomori doesn't make the squad. They must have done something to annoy the coaching team (like Ben White).

 

[GB72]

Would hate to be Ten Hag right now. I'm sure he'd love with every fibre of his being to tell them to stick their job up the backsides, but of course would lose a handsome pay-off by doing so. So he'll just sit in limbo indefinitely.

That has always confused me. Why pay out a manager, why not just keep paying the salary under gardening leave. Yes there are some savings on NI and Pensions etc but you suspect most managers would end up forfeiting a chunk of the payment to take a new job. After all 2-3 years is a long time in football and you can easily be forgotten.

 

[Swango1980]

All those people slating Southgate have obviously forgotten what came before him. Bottom of our group in 2014 world cup and dismal performances in Euro 2016 that culminated in elimination to Iceland.

Southgate is not a master tactician but getting to a final and a semi is a decent turnaround.

The recent friendlies were just glorified training sessions. I expect the team to move through the gears in the group matches.

I think you are trivialising people's negative opinions on Southgate. I think most people know how bad England were pre-Southgate.

In 2014, England had Hart, Forster, Foster, Baines, Cahill, Jagielka, Johnsen, Phil Jones, Shaw, Smalling, Barkley, Gerrard (aged 34), Henderson, Lallana, Lampard (aged 35), Milner, Chamberlain, Sterling, Wilshere, Lambert, Rooney, Sturridge and Welbeck in the squad. That squad was awful, and I'm not sure how much excitement England fans had going into the tournament. Hope maybe, but I don't think anyone was saying "with those players, England should win the tournament"

The 2016 squad was much the same. Other players who made the squad being Bertrand, Clyne, Danny Rose, Alli, Dier, Kane, Vardy and Rashford

However, England have a completely different generation of players now. I'd have thought the players England have now are miles ahead of what England had back then. Maybe not as good as some think they are compared to other nations, but certainly must be strong enough to be called favourites by many. So, it is ridiculous to compare Southgate to what previous managers did with pretty woeful squads. It is better to judge him by the squad he has available to him. And, there is nothing in his club or international management career that convinces me he is even a semi decent manager. He is a good diplomat, I'll give him that. But I think he is very lacking in other important areas

 

[Orikoru]

I think you are trivialising people's negative opinions on Southgate. I think most people know how bad England were pre-Southgate.

In 2014, England had Hart, Forster, Foster, Baines, Cahill, Jagielka, Johnsen, Phil Jones, Shaw, Smalling, Barkley, Gerrard (aged 34), Henderson, Lallana, Lampard (aged 35), Milner, Chamberlain, Sterling, Wilshere, Lambert, Rooney, Sturridge and Welbeck in the squad. That squad was awful, and I'm not sure how much excitement England fans had going into the tournament. Hope maybe, but I don't think anyone was saying "with those players, England should win the tournament"

The 2016 squad was much the same. Other players who made the squad being Bertrand, Clyne, Danny Rose, Alli, Dier, Kane, Vardy and Rashford

However, England have a completely different generation of players now. I'd have thought the players England have now are miles ahead of what England had back then. Maybe not as good as some think they are compared to other nations, but certainly must be strong enough to be called favourites by many. So, it is ridiculous to compare Southgate to what previous managers did with pretty woeful squads. It is better to judge him by the squad he has available to him. And, there is nothing in his club or international management career that convinces me he is even a semi decent manager. He is a good diplomat, I'll give him that. But I think he is very lacking in other important areas

Agreed. International football is cyclical in that you have good and bad generations. Southgate has done well in motivating players, and seemingly nullifying the old 'us and them' club mentalities that we used to have in previous generations (I partly think Sir Alex had a part in this, ingraining that hatred of other clubs' players into his Man Utd players). Southgate is good for team spirit and morale, but a lot less good at tactics and changing a game that's not going our way, unfortunately. He is blessed with the best talent we've had in probably 15 or 20 years, but he'll need to get the balance right this time.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I would say the biggest issue with England managers has been a) playing their favourites regardless of form or fitness, and b) playing players out of position and not playing the form players who play in that position normally.

 

[Tashyboy]

In other news, a country in the Middle East is interested in Everton. Why a royal family consortium would be interested in a team that plays in blue in the North east that has just had a brand new stadium built is beyond me. It could end up killing football. I cannot see in my Lifetime they will be Premier league winners .

 

[Tashyboy]

I would say the biggest issue with England managers has been playing a) their favourites regardless of form or fitness, and b) playing players out of position and not playing the form players who play in that position normally.

Reminds me of a story where England won the World Cup. A player said to Sir Alf, “ I will see you at the next England game”. Sir Alf said “ why have you been picked”. How times have changed.

 

[sunshine]

I think you are trivialising people's negative opinions on Southgate. I think most people know how bad England were pre-Southgate.

In 2014, England had Hart, Forster, Foster, Baines, Cahill, Jagielka, Johnsen, Phil Jones, Shaw, Smalling, Barkley, Gerrard (aged 34), Henderson, Lallana, Lampard (aged 35), Milner, Chamberlain, Sterling, Wilshere, Lambert, Rooney, Sturridge and Welbeck in the squad. That squad was awful, and I'm not sure how much excitement England fans had going into the tournament. Hope maybe, but I don't think anyone was saying "with those players, England should win the tournament"

The 2016 squad was much the same. Other players who made the squad being Bertrand, Clyne, Danny Rose, Alli, Dier, Kane, Vardy and Rashford

However, England have a completely different generation of players now. I'd have thought the players England have now are miles ahead of what England had back then. Maybe not as good as some think they are compared to other nations, but certainly must be strong enough to be called favourites by many. So, it is ridiculous to compare Southgate to what previous managers did with pretty woeful squads. It is better to judge him by the squad he has available to him. And, there is nothing in his club or international management career that convinces me he is even a semi decent manager. He is a good diplomat, I'll give him that. But I think he is very lacking in other important areas

So you are saying that Southgate had a completely different squad of world class players in 2018 to the “woeful” squad of 2016? Come on man, look at the facts.

In 2016 England were an embarrassing mess but 2 years later they were in a World Cup semi final. You have to give Southgate some credit for this.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

So you are saying that Southgate had a completely different squad of world class players in 2018 to the “woeful” squad of 2016? Come on man, look at the facts.

In 2016 England were an embarrassing mess but 2 years later they were in a World Cup semi final. You have to give Southgate some credit for this.

In 2018 -

England were beaten twice by Belgium

Managed to just about beat Tunisia in the last minute

Penalties against Colombia , decent game against Sweden and then bottled against Croatia after going into the lead


As across all the tournaments- Southgate’s England has fell short when it matters against the top teams

Same in 2020 , same in 2022

Southgate is better than Hodgson as England manager but that’s a low bar

 

[Swango1980]

So you are saying that Southgate had a completely different squad of world class players in 2018 to the “woeful” squad of 2016? Come on man, look at the facts.

In 2016 England were an embarrassing mess but 2 years later they were in a World Cup semi final. You have to give Southgate some credit for this.

I don't give Southgate much credit at all. Although I'd simply give him a bit of credit for not losing to teams England should beat easily. Not like previously, where England could get beat by a team miles below them in terms of quality.

But, if England faced teams more around their level, especially in the bigger important games, I have seen nothing from Southgate as being a winner.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Looks like Leicester are looking to bring in Potter as their manager , looks a very good choice

 

[PaulMdj]

In 2018 -

England were beaten twice by Belgium

Managed to just about beat Tunisia in the last minute

Penalties against Colombia , decent game against Sweden and then bottled against Croatia after going into the lead


As across all the tournaments- Southgate’s England has fell short when it matters against the top teams

Same in 2020 , same in 2022

Southgate is better than Hodgson as England manager but that’s a low bar

Weren’t Belgium and Croatia above us in the World Rankings at the time?

I’ll be glad when Southgate has gone, but I’ve never been convinced that there was anyone better at the time he was appointed and we don’t exactly have a long list of mansgers waiting to replace him.

I don’t remember “our” Golden generation doing that well.

How many genuine World Class players do we actually have in the current squad, 3, maybe 4?

 

[Billysboots]

But, if England faced teams more around their level, especially in the bigger important games, I have seen nothing from Southgate as being a winner.

This. With bells on.

I don’t have an encyclopaedic memory of England’s opponents at tournaments, but what I do know is that in two of the three tournaments at which he has managed England we were gifted friendly routes to the latter stages.

But at both of those we came unstuck as soon as we met half decent opposition. We really should have beaten Croatia in 2018, and don’t even get me started on Italy at the last Euros.

England could, and should, have won at least one of those tournaments. Maybe both. The fact that we won neither was, with respect to his supporters, down to the manager. Certainly the failure to win the Euros on home soil. I’m not sure we’ll get a better opportunity in my life time, and it was snatched from us not by a brilliant Italy side, because they were anything but. But by the conservatism of the manager.

Not losing games appears to be his DNA. With the talent he has available to him his aim should be to win them.

 

[PaulMdj]

I don't give Southgate much credit at all. Although I'd simply give him a bit of credit for not losing to teams England should beat easily. Not like previously, where England could get beat by a team miles below them in terms of quality.

But, if England faced teams more around their level, especially in the bigger important games, I have seen nothing from Southgate as being a winner.

I’m yet to hear anyone from the other Home Nations or a foreigner give England credit or want them to win.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Weren’t Belgium and Croatia above us in the World Rankings at the time?

I’ll be glad when Southgate has gone, but I’ve never been convinced that there was anyone better at the time he was appointed and we don’t exactly have a long list of mansgers waiting to replace him.

I don’t remember “our” Golden generation doing that well.

How many genuine World Class players do we actually have in the current squad, 3, maybe 4?

We’ve got as many,if not more than any other team at the Euros.
Suppose it depends what you class as “world class”

 

[Pin-seeker]

Foden surely has to do something at this tournament.
Unbelievable player for City,average at best when he puts on a England shirt.

 

[clubchamp98]

Foden surely has to do something at this tournament.
Unbelievable player for City,average at best when he puts on an England shirt.

Well a lot of players have done that as soon as they put an England shirt on.

Bellingham is the opposite he seems to grow!

 

[Hobbit]

I watch a fair bit of Spanish football as well as the Prem & Championship. The Prem has more strength in depth but has more foreign players. For all of saying England can/should have win/won. England don’t underachieve, they play to their level. Yes, there’s some dire performances but there’s also some, not so pretty, wins.

England aren’t a good watch but most of the time that is as good as they are. Yes, there’s some exceptional players in that squad but 3-4, at most, exceptional players don’t make a good team when you look at some of the others.

Surely after seeing a certain level of performances year after year it’s time we realise that is what England is. Could a different manager/style achieve more? Possibly maybe but I doubt there’d be much improvement. England just don’t have the players. I’d rather watch Spain, France(maybe) & Italy(definitely).