The Footie Thread

[Swango1980]

I think Poch would work well at United providing he has time. There is a massive rebuilding job to be done with fresh blood needed and a change of thought and attitude. This can't be done in one or two transfer windows and fans need to buy into the longer term project

Is this the same amount of time very few people seem to want to give ETH?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Is this the same amount of time very few people seem to want to give ETH?

And surely therein lies the problem. At least Liverpool realised Klopp had a long term plan and were prepared to have a few seasons of indifferent results to change the squad. United have seemed to want immediate results and a continuance of the Fergie era ever since he left and I don't think anyone has really been given sufficient time in the role. In some cases it has seemed from the outside that players have decided they don't like how a manager is doing things and the dressing room as pulled up the ladder and left the manager exposed

 

[road2ruin]

And surely therein lies the problem. At least Liverpool realised Klopp had a long term plan and were prepared to have a few seasons of indifferent results to change the squad. United have seemed to want immediate results and a continuance of the Fergie era ever since he left and I don't think anyone has really been given sufficient time in the role. In some cases it has seemed from the outside that players have decided they don't like how a manager is doing things and the dressing room as pulled up the ladder and left the manager exposed

Which is partly why I think ETH will stay as INEOS realise the situation that he and previous managers have been left in.

A load of dead wood needs to be got rid of and a lot of new players brought in which cannot be done in one season’s worth of windows.

 

[Orikoru]

Regarding Chelsea & Poch - the statement says 'mutual consent' which is often a euphemism for being given the tin tack, but in this case I can't believe even Chelsea would be that daft to sack him when they were finally getting things together and had a strong finish to the season. I'm more inclined to believe Poch has jacked it in, not wanting to work for an absolute basketcase of a club anymore.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Regarding Chelsea & Poch - the statement says 'mutual consent' which is often a euphemism for being given the tin tack, but in this case I can't believe even Chelsea would be that daft to sack him when they were finally getting things together and had a strong finish to the season. I'm more inclined to believe Poch has jacked it in, not wanting to work for an absolute basketcase of a club anymore.

The cynic in me wonders if perhaps he has another offer lined up

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think if you look at the on and off field issues as two completely separate issues for the basis of this discussion, then we know there is expected to be a big clear out this summer. This will put pressure on ETH and the squad that is assembled to perform from the start of the season. However history has shown that sometimes a side with a few key signings can take time to gel. Will he get that time if things aren't going well by say the first international break?

As for the off field issues, then they need to have a clear transfer policy and players and staff are going to have to buy in to a new, and according to some reports rigid working environment. Again will people be able to flourish in such surroundings. I still think United are a long term project and I don't know if time is going to be an option on and off the field

You’re overlooking the Utd fans who want the team to play the same as Fergies did and will be vocal in their displeasure if they don’t and they aren’t winning everything.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I’m surprised there’s been no mention of Pep not renewing his contract possibly and looking for a change.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

I’m surprised there’s been no mention of Pep not renewing his contract possibly and looking for a change.

I think he will be back to Barce after this season ( or a huge offer in Saudi ) and then Arteta moves to City

 

[HomerJSimpson]

You’re overlooking the Utd fans who want the team to play the same as Fergies did and will be vocal in their displeasure if they don’t and they aren’t winning everything.

Not at all and I think it is this fan attitude that has also caused a lot of the managerial problems. Owners see unhappy fans and want to do something to appease them and what's the easiest solution?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Not at all and I think it is this fan attitude that has also caused a lot of the managerial problems. Owners see unhappy fans and want to do something to appease them and what's the easiest solution?

I would suggest only giving a manager a 2 or 3 year contract does nothing to stop the turnover. A culture and style takes time to build and develop so giving a manager a 5 yr contract at minimum gives everyone the time and space to develop and grow. It also tells the fans this is not sticking plaster job.

 

[Swango1980]

And surely therein lies the problem. At least Liverpool realised Klopp had a long term plan and were prepared to have a few seasons of indifferent results to change the squad. United have seemed to want immediate results and a continuance of the Fergie era ever since he left and I don't think anyone has really been given sufficient time in the role. In some cases it has seemed from the outside that players have decided they don't like how a manager is doing things and the dressing room as pulled up the ladder and left the manager exposed

I'm not sure it is the Club demanding instant results, even under the dodgy leadership of The Glazers. I think it is more the media. After all, it is your Gabby Agbonlahor's, Danny Murphy's, Martin Keown's and Simon Jordan's that are continually battering Man Utd and ETH every chance they get, and talking about Utd's next manager. They are the ones who have already assumed he will be sacked, and who the next guy will be. And they've been doing that virtually all season.

Utd didn't give Moyes much of a chance to be fair, but I think the manager after Sir Alex was always going to be the fall guy. Van Gaal had 2 seasons, Mourinho got into third season and Ole was given a ridiculously long time considering he was so under qualified. You could argue that Van Gaal and Mourinho could have done well with more time, but the football wasn't entertaining, the managers almost became bigger than the club and Mourinho just looked like he didn't want to be there at all as time went on. So, I can see the logic of parting ways in those cases. It is not like Utd are Chelsea or Watford, who just sacked managers every few months

 

[Swango1980]

Regarding Chelsea & Poch - the statement says 'mutual consent' which is often a euphemism for being given the tin tack, but in this case I can't believe even Chelsea would be that daft to sack him when they were finally getting things together and had a strong finish to the season. I'm more inclined to believe Poch has jacked it in, not wanting to work for an absolute basketcase of a club anymore.

I was thinking that. After discussions with them, maybe he felt the Owners were still going to run the club like a circus, and didn't feel he'd be able to work in that environment?

I just don't see another reason why Chelsea would sack him now, just after running into form and a lot of the younger players making progress under him.

Unless they already have another manager lined up. How funny and shocking it would be if Klopp was announced as their new man

 

[Swango1980]

You’re overlooking the Utd fans who want the team to play the same as Fergies did and will be vocal in their displeasure if they don’t and they aren’t winning everything.

Most fans dream of getting to the top. Especially fans of clubs who already seem to be able to compete in the transfer market with the top teams.

There are many Utd fans, so many different opinions. But, listening to them in the media, or even in here, it is the Utd fans that are generally giving ETH much more credit. If you hear voices of "I think they should stick with ETH", it is usually from a Utd fan. Whereas, it is the people who are associated with other clubs who are almost universally calling for his head.

 

[Swango1980]

Not at all and I think it is this fan attitude that has also caused a lot of the managerial problems. Owners see unhappy fans and want to do something to appease them and what's the easiest solution?

The Utd fans didn't seem too unhappy when ETH gave his speech at the end of the season?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

The Utd fans didn't seem too unhappy when ETH gave his speech at the end of the season?

Was there not a good amount of booing ?

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag booed by Newcastle fans during end-of-season speech

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag awkwardly faced boos from fans as he addressed the crowd on the pitch after their 3-2 win over Newcastle.

metro.co.uk

ETH is a tough one

He did well at Ajax

Last season he did well at Man Utd but imo that was helped more by Liverpool , Chelsea and Spurs being poor to give imo a bit of a false position in the league

Have always thought he isn’t good enough and somehow has been allowed to bring in some trash of his own players

And the Sancho issue was a big red flag of him - other managers like Klopp , Pep and even Pochettino would have dealt with that situation to ensure Man Utd were getting the best out of their expensive signing and not another club

The stats this season aren’t pretty and show a lot of issues

If Pochettino would join then it’s an appointment that the club should be doing asap imo

For a manager to come in you need to have progression and Man Utd have regressed under him

 

[Billysboots]

Personally I’d av given it to Emre.

I’d agree with that. Done a first class job.

 

[Billysboots]

Was there not a good amount of booing ?

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag booed by Newcastle fans during end-of-season speech

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag awkwardly faced boos from fans as he addressed the crowd on the pitch after their 3-2 win over Newcastle.

metro.co.uk

ETH is a tough one

He did well at Ajax

Last season he did well at Man Utd but imo that was helped more by Liverpool , Chelsea and Spurs being poor to give imo a bit of a false position in the league

Have always thought he isn’t good enough and somehow has been allowed to bring in some trash of his own players

And the Sancho issue was a big red flag of him - other managers like Klopp , Pep and even Pochettino would have dealt with that situation to ensure Man Utd were getting the best out of their expensive signing and not another club

The stats this season aren’t pretty and show a lot of issues

If Pochettino would join then it’s an appointment that the club should be doing asap imo

For a manager to come in you need to have progression and Man Utd have regressed under him

Me and my lad had a long chat about the situation at United over a pint last night.

One thing which has been largely absent this year is any sign that the match going fans are turning on him. I saw it previously with both LVG and Mourinho - there was a lot of discontent and it was palpable on match days towards the end of their tenures.

Not seeing that with ETH. I think there is a good deal of sympathy for him regarding the injuries, especially those to the back four. The feeling I get is that many are willing to give him a bit more time, but if performances and consistency do not improve when he has a settled side things will change very quickly.

 

[Swango1980]

Was there not a good amount of booing ?

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag booed by Newcastle fans during end-of-season speech

Man Utd boss Erik ten Hag awkwardly faced boos from fans as he addressed the crowd on the pitch after their 3-2 win over Newcastle.

metro.co.uk

ETH is a tough one

He did well at Ajax

Last season he did well at Man Utd but imo that was helped more by Liverpool , Chelsea and Spurs being poor to give imo a bit of a false position in the league

Have always thought he isn’t good enough and somehow has been allowed to bring in some trash of his own players

And the Sancho issue was a big red flag of him - other managers like Klopp , Pep and even Pochettino would have dealt with that situation to ensure Man Utd were getting the best out of their expensive signing and not another club

The stats this season aren’t pretty and show a lot of issues

If Pochettino would join then it’s an appointment that the club should be doing asap imo

For a manager to come in you need to have progression and Man Utd have regressed under him

When he started talking, there was some booing, followed by immediate chanting to drown out the boos. However, fans at the game said afterwards that the booing was from a section of Newcastle fans.

Regarding being helped by Liverpool, Chelsea, etc last season, that could always be said. Given there are probably 6 or 7 clubs who genuinely feel they should be getting into top 4, there will always be clubs who end up disappointed. You could say Liverpool, Villa and Spurs are in a false position this season, as they were helped by Man Utd, Chelsea and Newcastle being disappointing.

I think the only trash player is Antony. And if he cost £20 million, you'd probabvly accept him as a squad player at least. I blame the people above him more for allowing that to go ahead. Martinez, Casemiro, Hojlund and Malacia were all considered good signings, and did well that first season. Mount is a decent player, but injuries have killed his season. I'm actually growing to like Onana, despite a poor start.

All managers have fallings out with players. I can't really recall their entire careers, but I remember Pep didn't get on with Ibrahimovic, and I'm sure Zlatan at least trained hard. Ferguson probably didn't get the best out of Veron. ETH tried his best to help Sancho, but I think some players are just really really difficult to work with, and that can have a negative impact on the squad. How many managers got the best out of Pogba?

I'm not sure Utd have regressed under him. Utd finished with more points this season than they did the season before he joined. I also think he has had a lot more injury issues this season than we had that season. The club was more of a circus before he joined. It is still nowhere near perfect, but I feel it is a lot more stable than it was when Rangnick was there

 

[Orikoru]

Alright, team of the season time! Who you got?

Vicario
White - Romero - Gabriel - Gvardiol
Rice - Rodri
Palmer - Odegaard - Foden
Haaland
​

Vicario is biased but I thought he was excellent, and I don't believe there was a clear stand-out best keeper in the league - I think this is potentially the most debatable position in the team and would have the most different opinions from people.

Tempting to put Watkins or Isak over Haaland due to differing expectations, but ultimately had to go with the top scorer. 27 goals in 29 starts in a "poor second season". Yeah. Could always do a Garth Crooks style formation and put Watkins in and take Romero out I suppose.

 

[Swango1980]

Alright, team of the season time! Who you got?

Vicario
White - Romero - Gabriel - Gvardiol
Rice - Rodri
Palmer - Odegaard - Foden
Haaland
​

Vicario is biased but I thought he was excellent, and I don't believe there was a clear stand-out best keeper in the league - I think this is potentially the most debatable position in the team and would have the most different opinions from people.

Tempting to put Watkins or Isak over Haaland due to differing expectations, but ultimately had to go with the top scorer. 27 goals in 29 starts in a "poor second season". Yeah. Could always do a Garth Crooks style formation and put Watkins in and take Romero out I suppose.

Can't argue about too many players, but got to disagree with your GK. Is this not the same GK that everyone suggests is really weak at corners?

Trying to look at some stats, to see what I'm missing. His shot save % is 67.7%. That is lower than Alisson, Areola, Dubravka, Ederson, Kelleher, Leno, Muric, Onana, Ortega, Pickford, Pope, Raya, Sa, Sanchez and Verbruggen (it would have been quicker to list the keepers worse than him). In fact, of all the keepers to play at least 10 games, Onana has the highest save percentage, at 74.9%. Vicario is also far down the list in clean sheet percentage.

So, I'm really struggling to see a good justification in him being the best keeper in the league this year.