The Footie Thread

[Aztecs27]

Nottingham Forest should have had one penalty in Everton defeat - KMI Panel

Nottingham Forest should have been awarded one penalty from their three unsuccessful appeals at Everton, an independent panel says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The panel that review decisions has agreed that Forest should have had one penalty against Everton. Not 3, 1. No surprise, it is the one where Young caught the back of Hudson-Odoi.

No doubt, the conspiracy theorists will still have problems with this but they give a good explanation of why the decisions were criticised, or not.

Was never just about the Everton game to be fair. I think it was just the straw that broke the camel’s back after a large number of questionable calls.

The first two have been given and wouldn’t have seen much appeal from the Everton fans had they been given, but fair to argue that it’s one of those you see them/you don’t see them (ie a very similar handball was given in the FA cup the very same day).

I’m sure Marinakis won’t stop until he’s burned down a bakery

Can’t imagine the collective head loss if we, by some miracle, are given back 2 points from our appeal . And ass if happening though, unfortunately

 

[PJ87]

It is the way I felt Man Utd often played against the bigger teams in league during the Ferguson years. Just defend solidly, let them have the ball without being too worried about them doing anything dangerous with it, and then hammer them with quick counter attacks. And that was when we had good players throughout the team.

We were better at defending earlier in the season , inviting teams into us. Letting them take long pot shots and then picking them off on the break

Latest until about Xmas then teams adapted and we kept shooting ourselves in the foot.

Works well with a solid defence but ATM we are as solid as swiss cheese

 

[samthom99]

It was 60/40 Forest, not exactly dominating, probably the best stat was 2-0.

For context Forest were the away team, a team whose won 2 away games, drawn 4 and lost 11 all season. At 1-0 Forest were on the front foot and were dominating the game. Had the pen been given the reuslt is a different outcome in my opinion.

You are right, the only stat that ever matters is the result

 

[clubchamp98]

Possession isn't the be all and end all as your research has proven.

People band it about without understanding what wins football games. Scoring more goals than the other team

West ham beat Chelsea 3-1 this season we had 24% of the possession

We also beat Brighton 3-1 with 22% possession

We lost to Fulham the other week 2-0 with 58% possession

Possession is all well and good. But it means nothing if you do bugger all with it.

Spot on .
If you take Liverpool as an example the main possession is with the two centre backs.

 

[PaulMdj]

For context Forest were the away team, a team whose won 2 away games, drawn 4 and lost 11 all season. At 1-0 Forest were on the front foot and were dominating the game. Had the pen been given the reuslt is a different outcome in my opinion.

You are right, the only stat that ever matters is the result

I’d rather take the opinion of their manager who said in the post match interview that they didn’t play well enough or deserved to win the game.

 

[Swango1980]

For context Forest were the away team, a team whose won 2 away games, drawn 4 and lost 11 all season. At 1-0 Forest were on the front foot and were dominating the game. Had the pen been given the reuslt is a different outcome in my opinion.

You are right, the only stat that ever matters is the result

So, as soon as the penalty wasn't given, were Forest no longer on the front foot. Did they suddenly go on the back foot?

 

[samthom99]

So, as soon as the penalty wasn't given, were Forest no longer on the front foot. Did they suddenly go on the back foot?

DId you watch the game?

 

[Swango1980]

DId you watch the game?

I was asking you the question...

 

[Reemul]

It's always someone elses fault these days, sure a decision or 2 goes against you, happens to most clubs throughout the season, Forest are not the worst off this season either, Wolves have had some absolute stinkers but they aren't looking at relegation are they, however as Forest are looking relegation bound they need to blame someone, anyone else, not their poor performances, missed opportunitiers, over spending and so on. Chris Wood in the week was dreadful certainly not the performance you would be looking for at this point in the season and trying to stave of relegation from your striker. Gibbs-White has dramtically gone of the boil, probably Var's fault that one to be fair.....How about blaming them.

These decisions suck and for all teams affected by them but teams that get relegated generally get it because they aren't good enough and 3 of the final 4 really haven't been good enough and nothing to do with VAR there.

 

[Don Barzini]

sure a decision or 2 goes against you

 

[Reemul]

You see that's the issue. Against Everton pretty much everyone thinks the last decison was incorrect so 1 error, the other 2 are correct. In every game there are decisions made that both teams disagree with both with Var and by the Ref. Now the absolute stinkers are less but again Forest haven't been the worst, there are other teams out there like Wolves who have had even worse decisions against them. Forest are no better or worse than half teh teams in the division but hey victim alert here.

You sacked Cooper and brought in a new manager who has achieved absolutely nothing, both my kids are Wolves supporters and love Nuno but they think since leaving them he has done very little. Forest, the owners, the management teams and the players have really failed this season with the amount of money spent, players bought and manager sacking but lets blame a decision or 2 in VAR as if it would make any difference.

As an Everton supporter personally I think it's a disgrace we got 8 points and Forest only got 4 for a bigger discrepancy, I should be shouting, cheat, corruption, unfair, victim here. But no we knuckled down and dealt with it, Forest are like that player that dives and rolls around on the floor hand in the air looking for a free kick while the other team goes down the other end and scores.

Most people had an affection for Forest dating back to Clough and their exploits but now all i hear is hope they go down, can't stand them. I wonder why

 

[Neilds]

There were rumours Moshiri (current owner) was a frontman for Usamanov the Russian Oligarch, once Ukraine kicked off our money problems really started, ie Usamanov was allegedy going to sponsor the new stadium for around £200 million, which would of saved us from all the FFP problems.

Then 777 became involved and bad rumours about them.

We really are in a mess at the top and if 777 pull out we could end up going bankrupt before next season starts meaning another 9 point deduction next season.

Is there another industry where as many firms (clubs) are run as badly and with as much debt as football clubs? Amazing that more aren't going bust

 

[Swango1980]

You see that's the issue. Against Everton pretty much everyone thinks the last decison was incorrect so 1 error, the other 2 are correct. In every game there are decisions made that both teams disagree with both with Var and by the Ref. Now the absolute stinkers are less but again Forest haven't been the worst, there are other teams out there like Wolves who have had even worse decisions against them. Forest are no better or worse than half teh teams in the division but hey victim alert here.

You sacked Cooper and brought in a new manager who has achieved absolutely nothing, both my kids are Wolves supporters and love Nuno but they think since leaving them he has done very little. Forest, the owners, the management teams and the players have really failed this season with the amount of money spent, players bought and manager sacking but lets blame a decision or 2 in VAR as if it would make any difference.

As an Everton supporter personally I think it's a disgrace we got 8 points and Forest only got 4 for a bigger discrepancy, I should be shouting, cheat, corruption, unfair, victim here. But no we knuckled down and dealt with it, Forest are like that player that dives and rolls around on the floor hand in the air looking for a free kick while the other team goes down the other end and scores.

Most people had an affection for Forest dating back to Clough and their exploits but now all i hear is hope they go down, can't stand them. I wonder why

And in fairness to Everton fans in here, I remember DCL was blatantly fouled a few weeks ago in the box, and no penalty was given. It was talked a little at the time, as one would expect to discuss bad decisions. Not heard anyone say it shouldn't be a penalty, and I believe it is one of those the PGMOL have had to admit was a mistake. I think it was against Bournemouth, and you lost 2-1.

 

[Orikoru]

And in fairness to Everton fans in here, I remember DCL was blatantly fouled a few weeks ago in the box, and no penalty was given. It was talked a little at the time, as one would expect to discuss bad decisions. Not heard anyone say it shouldn't be a penalty, and I believe it is one of those the PGMOL have had to admit was a mistake. I think it was against Bournemouth, and you lost 2-1.

Hypothetical anyway. People talk like penalties are automatic goals when they talk about decisions like this.. it can still be missed!

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Is there another industry where as many firms (clubs) are run as badly and with as much debt as football clubs? Amazing that more aren't going bust

I saw a breakdown of salaries that Everton pay, when contracts are up, and the numbers were scary. Bearing in mind we are a long way from being the biggest payers out there. Anyway, we will lose about £20m off the wage bill come June as some of those players contracts come to an end. Hopefully, we are now signing players on more realistic salaries compared to the daft ones, we had a spell that was a bit delusional and are paying the price of that.

The killer for us, reading up from various sources, is the new stadium. It's a hard one, the PL set up needs you to have an increased income. To get an increased income we needed to move grounds, Goodison was incredibly dated, doesn't bring in enough match day income, can not be expanded. Building the new ground is smashing us. If we can get through this period, move into the new ground, we will be in a better place, more attractive to buyers as well. We just need to get there.

The likes of Crystal Palace, who must know they need to do something similar, have to be looking at us thinking we will stay as we are.

 

[Neilds]

I saw a breakdown of salaries that Everton pay, when contracts are up, and the numbers were scary. Bearing in mind we are a long way from being the biggest payers out there. Anyway, we will lose about £20m off the wage bill come June as some of those players contracts come to an end. Hopefully, we are now signing players on more realistic salaries compared to the daft ones, we had a spell that was a bit delusional and are paying the price of that.

The killer for us, reading up from various sources, is the new stadium. It's a hard one, the PL set up needs you to have an increased income. To get an increased income we needed to move grounds, Goodison was incredibly dated, doesn't bring in enough match day income, can not be expanded. Building the new ground is smashing us. If we can get through this period, move into the new ground, we will be in a better place, more attractive to buyers as well. We just need to get there.

The likes of Crystal Palace, who must know they need to do something similar, have to be looking at us thinking we will stay as we are.

Wasn't a dig at Everton - was more a general view. Most clubs are running at huge debts and I can't imagine a 'normal' business would be allowed to keep trading with such debts

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Wasn't a dig at Everton - was more a general view. Most clubs are running at huge debts and I can't imagine a 'normal' business would be allowed to keep trading with such debts

Sorry, I wasn't taking it as a dig at Everton, although to be fair we have been run badly so it was a fair description . I agree with your point, it's a bonkers industry.

 

[Swango1980]

I saw a breakdown of salaries that Everton pay, when contracts are up, and the numbers were scary. Bearing in mind we are a long way from being the biggest payers out there. Anyway, we will lose about £20m off the wage bill come June as some of those players contracts come to an end. Hopefully, we are now signing players on more realistic salaries compared to the daft ones, we had a spell that was a bit delusional and are paying the price of that.

The killer for us, reading up from various sources, is the new stadium. It's a hard one, the PL set up needs you to have an increased income. To get an increased income we needed to move grounds, Goodison was incredibly dated, doesn't bring in enough match day income, can not be expanded. Building the new ground is smashing us. If we can get through this period, move into the new ground, we will be in a better place, more attractive to buyers as well. We just need to get there.

The likes of Crystal Palace, who must know they need to do something similar, have to be looking at us thinking we will stay as we are.

Your owners are missing a trick.

Refer to your new ground as "The Wembley of the North" and maybe you can get the tax payers to pay for it

 

[Aztecs27]

You see that's the issue. Against Everton pretty much everyone thinks the last decison was incorrect so 1 error, the other 2 are correct. In every game there are decisions made that both teams disagree with both with Var and by the Ref. Now the absolute stinkers are less but again Forest haven't been the worst, there are other teams out there like Wolves who have had even worse decisions against them. Forest are no better or worse than half teh teams in the division but hey victim alert here.

You sacked Cooper and brought in a new manager who has achieved absolutely nothing, both my kids are Wolves supporters and love Nuno but they think since leaving them he has done very little. Forest, the owners, the management teams and the players have really failed this season with the amount of money spent, players bought and manager sacking but lets blame a decision or 2 in VAR as if it would make any difference.

As an Everton supporter personally I think it's a disgrace we got 8 points and Forest only got 4 for a bigger discrepancy, I should be shouting, cheat, corruption, unfair, victim here. But no we knuckled down and dealt with it, Forest are like that player that dives and rolls around on the floor hand in the air looking for a free kick while the other team goes down the other end and scores.

Most people had an affection for Forest dating back to Clough and their exploits but now all i hear is hope they go down, can't stand them. I wonder why

As Cooper's biggest fan, I feel I am qualified enough to say - it was the right time for him to go (he should have gone about 3 games earlier in fairness), as things had become stale and we were setup to play to not lose and hope to nick a goal on the counter....and ended up losing by 2 or more goals anyway.
Nuno has us playing much more "front foot" football - but defensively we are atrocious (not all his fault, we were awful under Cooper too). We have absolutely no success at defending set pieces (one of the main reasons for our downfall, imho) and only have points since he came in as we've managed to actually score some goals.
With all that said...Nuno was absolutely not the right appointment. We had Glasner....until he wanted tactical control and a say in transfers....which we weren't willing to give him (which is absolutely ridiculous) - so we hired Nuno as a favour to his mate Jorge Mendes instead. Nice one.

As for the second point - it's not quite as black and white as that (given the fact our allowances weren't the same and there were other mitigating factors)....but you'll probably be livid later when it's announced we will be getting (at least) one point back

Also - I get that from the outside looking in, it looks like we've played the victim card (and we have, to an extent - and the childish tweet after the Everton game really did not help matters) - but I can honestly say that if any other team was in the position we've found ourselves in with the terrible decisions we've had this season (we've had 4 formal apologies at last count), you'd probably feel as aggrieved.

The club, as always, have gone about dealing with it in completely the wrong way - much like a number of things since being promoted;
- Not getting a shirt sponsor last season...and not having one before the start of the season this year.
- firing our recruitment team because Awoniyi was considered a "flop"...only for him to find his form after injury and then re-hire the very same recruitment team on a consultancy basis earlier this year
- Marinakis giving the keys to the car to his son - who has no previous experience in running a football club....only for him to use it as his play thing and bring in some absolutely ridiculous "marquee" transfers or stupid wages (Lingard and Origi to name a few)...
- Increasing season card prices over and above acceptable levels twice in two seasons.

...are just the ones off he top go my head....

and it's meant that we've become the most hated team in the league (which I personally couldn't really care less about), and makes us look ridiculous - when actually it could have been handled in a much more mature way - and would have made a difference without looking like whiny victims.

If Everton could just beat Luton on Friday, you know, just in case you get a 9 point deduction for going into administration, that would be great

 

[PaulMdj]

Is there another industry where as many firms (clubs) are run as badly and with as much debt as football clubs? Amazing that more aren't going bust

Not sure there are as many business’s are guaranteed income every year though, ie, gate receipts, tv money etc and there’s always someone looking to invest, sadly