The Footie Thread

[HomecountiesJohn]

The stats show that Bayern committed 12 fouls and City 11, they also show Bayern with 5 yellows and City with Four. One of those yellows was for Gundoghan reacting to a challenge. Not forgetting Bayern had a red ( rightly) overturned. It hardly points to persistent cynical fouling.
Overall the better team over two legs went through.

The stats do not include missed fouls and those that are not given, for both sides. To analyse the game just on stats would be incredibly foolish.

There is no doubt the better team won and went through, anyone suggesting otherwise obviously never watched the game.

 

[GreiginFife]

Not sure where your going with this, you've already agreed he got a lot wrong tonight. if i made as many mistakes in my job as referees do on a weekly basis i would be out of a job.

I am always right. Even at work

I wasn’t really going anywhere with it other than we all make mistakes, even at work (well, some of us ) and I’d bet few of us work in as fast paced and pressure environment.

I think we all know that football is a different beast around “work related performance”. Just look at the managerial merry go round. As a contract consultant by trade, if I’d been sacked as many times as Lampard for, well, not being very good at what I do, then I doubt I’d get many contracts in the sector in which I operate.

Anyhoo, we all see things differently otherwise a grey existence we’d lead.

 

[HomecountiesJohn]

I wasn’t really going anywhere with it other than we all make mistakes, even at work (well, some of us ) and I’d bet few of us work in as fast paced and pressure environment.

I think we all know that football is a different beast around “work related performance”. Just look at the managerial merry go round. As a contract consultant by trade, if I’d been sacked as many times as Lampard for, well, not being very good at what I do, then I doubt I’d get many contracts in the sector in which I operate.

Anyhoo, we all see things differently otherwise a grey existence we’d lead.

You are not wrong. The top echelons of Football has a totally different business mindset compared to many bluechip companies around the world.

Rewarding failure on a consistent basis, based purely on reputation seems to be par for most football clubs.

It seems certain managers are protected by their pals in the media and down Fleet street.

 

[Newtonuti]

You are not wrong. The top echelons of Football has a totally different business mindset compared to many bluechip companies around the world.

Rewarding failure on a consistent basis, based purely on reputation seems to be par for most football clubs.

It seems certain managers are protected by their pals in the media and down Fleet street.

Pardew, Ranieri, Hughes or Bruce are all sacked constantly, but carry on getting jobs. It's absolutely insane. I also don't get the whole getting paid off when you're sacked due to being rubbish at your job thing. If I don't perform as a maintenance engineer, I'm out the door with my P45, not with a full years wage!

 

[GB72]

Pardew, Ranieri, Hughes or Bruce are all sacked constantly, but carry on getting jobs. It's absolutely insane. I also don't get the whole getting paid off when you're sacked due to being rubbish at your job thing. If I don't perform as a maintenance engineer, I'm out the door with my P45, not with a full years wage!

So agree with this. Why are the contracts not draw up better to include essential performance indicators. They get bonuses for good performance so why not the revese, If you finish top 4 you get a bonus, top 7 and you get nothing, outside the top 7 and you can be dismissed with no requirement to pay out the contract. Seems fair to me for a manager at a top end club.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

So agree with this. Why are the contracts not draw up better to include essential performance indicators. They get bonuses for good performance so why not the revese, If you finish top 4 you get a bonus, top 7 and you get nothing, outside the top 7 and you can be dismissed with no requirement to pay out the contract. Seems fair to me for a manager at a top end club.

Because there are so many parts to a team not playing well and “performance” levels will be subjective depending on clubs

It’s not always down to the manager when a team doesn’t do well

Some managers always get jobs because they have a proven track record over the years


They also sign contracts to a certain length - if the club want to terminate that signed contract then they need to pay up what’s left.

It’s not really the right comparison between your every man job and someone in professional sports

 

[GB72]

Because there are so many parts to a team not playing well and “performance” levels will be subjective depending on clubs

It’s not always down to the manager when a team doesn’t do well

Some managers always get jobs because they have a proven track record over the years


They also sign contracts to a certain length - if the club want to terminate that signed contract then they need to pay up what’s left.

It’s not really the right comparison between your every man job and someone in professional sports

But the manager can have built in bonuses for a good performance. The clause does not need to compel dismissal for a poor performance but it allows it as an option.

Of course the performance levels would be subjective to the cliub and those on the contract for Pep, lets say, would be far greater than those for a manager at Bournmouth.

In the same way that a regular manager is judged on the performance of their department, it is not really that out of order to judge a football manager on team performance.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But the manager can have built in bonuses for a good performance. The clause does not need to compel dismissal for a poor performance but it allows it as an option.

Of course the performance levels would be subjective to the cliub and those on the contract for Pep, lets say, would be far greater than those for a manager at Bournmouth.

In the same way that a regular manager is judged on the performance of their department, it is not really that out of order to judge a football manager on team performance.

They do have built in bonuses for doing well

Allardyce for example had bonuses of £1mil for keeping clubs in the Prem

Professional football managers are not going to sign contracts that tie them down for years but then have a clause that means the club can sack them with no pay off.

 

[Neilds]

Nothing in football can be compared to 'normal' businesses. If a company was run the same way as a football club it would be bust in a matter of months.

 

[Beezerk]

Nothing in football can be compared to 'normal' businesses. If a company was run the same way as a football club it would be bust in a matter of months.

It used to wind up my missus no end (she disqualified a few football club directors) how they could run at a loss and have major dodgy dealings yet HMRC wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

 

[GB72]

They do have built in bonuses for doing well

Allardyce for example had bonuses of £1mil for keeping clubs in the Prem

Professional football managers are not going to sign contracts that tie them down for years but then have a clause that means the club can sack them with no pay off.

Not under current thinking, no, but that does not mean that it is not a fair and equitable solution. Just because the current situation exists does not meant it is right.

 

[Swango1980]

Pardew, Ranieri, Hughes or Bruce are all sacked constantly, but carry on getting jobs. It's absolutely insane. I also don't get the whole getting paid off when you're sacked due to being rubbish at your job thing. If I don't perform as a maintenance engineer, I'm out the door with my P45, not with a full years wage!

The other way to look at it is that there will always be football clubs "under-performing". In the PL 3 teams have to get relegated, and well before the end of the season you could have close to half the league worried about being near the bottom at one point or another. At the top end of the table, only one team can win (despite more having ambitions), and there are probably more teams with European ambitions than spots available. And, similar in all leagues, with promotion and relegation

So, you could theoretically have 20 brilliant managers in the Premier League, and you will still have clubs under-performing and over-performing. 3 clubs will still get relegated, regardless of how good every manager is in the league. And managers will get sacked, as team performances will reflect poorly on them, for better or for worse. Along with desperate Owners looking for a bounce back with fresh faces on coaching set up.

If managers keep getting sacked and hired, it is because there is obviously something about them that could work well at a club, even if it might not be long term. They are battle hardened, and experience speaks for a lot. Otherwise, a club needs to either hire a manager that has never been sacked (how many of them are there?), and may well have to pay for them to leave another club. Or, they take a risk on a fresh new manager with no experience.

 

[HomecountiesJohn]

I'm looking forward to watching Manchester United battle it out with Sevilla this evening.

They've or should i say "He" ten Haag made a massive mistake in letting Sevilla back into the tie last week, im glad the away goals rule doesnt exist anymore. I couldnt tolerate watching a team roll around the floor every time anyone goes near them trying to protect there away goals.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm looking forward to watching Manchester United battle it out with Sevilla this evening.

They've or should i say "He" ten Haag made a massive mistake in letting Sevilla back into the tie last week, im glad the away goals rule doesnt exist anymore. I couldnt tolerate watching a team roll around the floor every time anyone goes near them trying to protect there away goals.

Collective responsibility. I don't think ten Hag asked Malacia to let the cross go to the attacker behind him for the 1st goal. Probably a mistake in making all his substitutions before Martinez got injured. Although, probably a risk many managers make, and usually get away with it.

Goodness knows what will happen tonight. Could be anything from a 5-0 win to Utd to a 5-0 win to Seville, the way we play sometimes.

 

[HomecountiesJohn]

Collective responsibility. I don't think ten Hag asked Malacia to let the cross go to the attacker behind him for the 1st goal. Probably a mistake in making all his substitutions before Martinez got injured. Although, probably a risk many managers make, and usually get away with it.

Goodness knows what will happen tonight. Could be anything from a 5-0 win to Utd to a 5-0 win to Seville, the way we play sometimes.

Making those substitutions when he did disrupted Uniteds flow and control of the game, that wasnt the players fault.

i think they played a bigger roll than that of the Malacia mistake which can happen to anyone, those freak situations are part of football.

Its a collective responsibility for sure.

 

[Hobbit]

They do have built in bonuses for doing well

Allardyce for example had bonuses of £1mil for keeping clubs in the Prem

Professional football managers are not going to sign contracts that tie them down for years but then have a clause that means the club can sack them with no pay off.

spot on. And contracts work both ways. A manager is successful but another club comes in for him. He wants out of the contract. His agent wants him out of the contract. The club gets a lumper for letting him go, a bit like a transfer. And if a club wants to sack him they have to recompense him. The other option is they work to improve his performance, whilst the club gets relegated.

I don’t like golden parachutes but if a club is daft enough to give them a big contract to entice him there in the first place, they’re also responsible for their own business decisions.

 

[PJ87]

So agree with this. Why are the contracts not draw up better to include essential performance indicators. They get bonuses for good performance so why not the revese, If you finish top 4 you get a bonus, top 7 and you get nothing, outside the top 7 and you can be dismissed with no requirement to pay out the contract. Seems fair to me for a manager at a top end club.

Depends so much on situation, untested manager at a bigger club (like when pardew took over west ham) has less say what's in his contract

When Conte went to spurs he so high end he could name his terms

Potter gave up his Brighton position for a risk of Chelsea, he deserved his Pay out for the tarnish on his record

 

[PJ87]

Pardew, Ranieri, Hughes or Bruce are all sacked constantly, but carry on getting jobs. It's absolutely insane. I also don't get the whole getting paid off when you're sacked due to being rubbish at your job thing. If I don't perform as a maintenance engineer, I'm out the door with my P45, not with a full years wage!

Equally if you want to leave for a diff company you can just hand in your notice rather than the other company paying your company

Works both ways

 

[IJames]

I'm looking forward to watching Manchester United battle it out with Sevilla this evening.

They've or should i say "He" ten Haag made a massive mistake in letting Sevilla back into the tie last week, im glad the away goals rule doesnt exist anymore. I couldnt tolerate watching a team roll around the floor every time anyone goes near them trying to protect there away goals.

Did ten Haag really have that much control over whether Sevilla got back into it?

 

[HomecountiesJohn]

Maguire