The Footie Thread

[fundy]

But Chelsea have had too many signings, have loads of injuries. Poor Graham Potter, we shouldn't judge them.

Weird how Forest didn't receive the same sympathy and Cooper gets zero credit for going through EXACTLY THE SAME THING, except with less money, more players and just as many injuries...oh, but he's actually making it work.

Oh were judging them

And you

 

[Tashyboy]

Not seen a lot of the football the last week or so, been away but been following the thread. A couple of things.

Rashford, chuffed he is doing well for Utd and hopefully he can be a regular with that form for England. I have seen him when he is at his explosive best and it is frightening. I remember saying when he had a real bad patch he needed someone like Pep to get the best out of him. It now seems he ( and others) have found someone in TH to do that. I have a feeling that TH current team will run through brick walls for him. Next season could be a title challenge from the first game. Don’t rule out this year though. That is bad news for Liverpool fans.
Talking of Liverpool. How the season has turned turtle for Utd and Liverpool. But I called it after the community shield re Liverpool. They need some Major investment and I can see Salah leaving to help fund that, but where?
Liverpool need a Casimero and Eriksen equivalent to gel that side together. Ave a feeling the season could still be a painful one for the fans and missing out of champs league could hinder player recruitment For next season.

 

[Jimaroid]

There is absolutely no way on this earth that this current Liverpool side will win by three clear goals in Madrid. They are a defensive shambles.

Honestly I’m not seeing it that bad. The previous criticisms that they‘ve been conceeding early and playing from a losing position doesn’t apply. 2 goals up and where they got completely unzipped was through the midfield. Fabinho had an awful game and I agree there were many defensive errors but they’re not shambolic by any stretch. I’d be looking elsewhere look for that badge of honour. Take away 2 bizarre goalie howlers and an awful set piece and the game seems a lot closer than the scoreline reads.

Like it or not Liverpool can make miracles happen, especially in the champions league. Never write them off.

 

[Swango1980]

Not seen a lot of the football the last week or so, been away but been following the thread. A couple of things.

Rashford, chuffed he is doing well for Utd and hopefully he can be a regular with that form for England. I have seen him when he is at his explosive best and it is frightening. I remember saying when he had a real bad patch he needed someone like Pep to get the best out of him. It now seems he ( and others) have found someone in TH to do that. I have a feeling that TH current team will run through brick walls for him. Next season could be a title challenge from the first game. Don’t rule out this year though. That is bad news for Liverpool fans.
Talking of Liverpool. How the season has turned turtle for Utd and Liverpool. But I called it after the community shield re Liverpool. They need some Major investment and I can see Salah leaving to help fund that, but where?
Liverpool need a Casimero and Eriksen equivalent to gel that side together. Ave a feeling the season could still be a painful one for the fans and missing out of champs league could hinder player recruitment For next season.

I remember saying the below in Dec 2021, which would have been mocked by some:

"My frustrations with Rashford are I hope for so much more. If anyone in that team could be our Mbappe, he has the attributes. However, he frequently seems to make the wrong decision. Does something great, then does one step over too many, or a shoddy pass. Then, when we lose the ball it is like the entire side switch off (not just Rashford)."

His form now highlights how I was feeling back then. Even when he was awful, I could see the signs of such an exciting talent. Strong, powerful, skillful. But, he seemed to have Theo Walcott decision making. It is now great to see him playing the way he is. Having a coach who has faith in him, and has developed a structure to really help coach him and bring the best out of him.

 

[Aztecs27]

Oh were judging them

And you

haha. I know you might be, but the inconsistency in the media is embarrassing (although I don't know why I'm surprised!)

In August it was all;

they've signed too many players.
they're doing a fulham
Cooper will never get 22 new players to gel, he'll be the first to go.
Forest are relegated already

and now he's actually gelled the team, outlasted a number of other managers, rattled entire fanbases, hasn't lost at home since September and is mid table, the narrative is;

"Well they should be mid table, look at their spend and the number of players they bought in."

Make your mind up lads

 

[pokerjoke]

Listening to the Liverpool fans on the radio today is comedy gold.
Listening to them they want everyone out lol
One thing I can safely say is Harry Maguire would walk into that Liverpool defence.
I said it 3 seasons ago TAA can’t defend,finally Liverpool fans can see it,unfortunately Klopp can’t.
Gomez is worse
Matip is an accident waiting to happen every game.
As one of the callers said VVD legs have gone.
Allison has been good and bad for 2 seasons now.
Liverpools midfield is shocking,it’s like having 4 Fred’s.
Salah scores and puts his finger up to say number one ,I think he was talking about the number of good games he’s had in 3 seasons.
Long may it continue.
Klopp at the wheel

 

[fundy]

haha. I know you might be, but the inconsistency in the media is embarrassing (although I don't know why I'm surprised!)

In August it was all;

they've signed too many players.
they're doing a fulham
Cooper will never get 22 new players to gel, he'll be the first to go.
Forest are relegated already

and now he's actually gelled the team, outlasted a number of other managers, rattled entire fanbases, hasn't lost at home since September and is mid table, the narrative is;

"Well they should be mid table, look at their spend and the number of players they bought in."

Make your mind up lads

You gonna put Moyes out of a job at the weekend? Or still suffering travel sickness?

 

[Swango1980]

haha. I know you might be, but the inconsistency in the media is embarrassing (although I don't know why I'm surprised!)

In August it was all;

they've signed too many players.
they're doing a fulham
Cooper will never get 22 new players to gel, he'll be the first to go.
Forest are relegated already

and now he's actually gelled the team, outlasted a number of other managers, rattled entire fanbases, hasn't lost at home since September and is mid table, the narrative is;

"Well they should be mid table, look at their spend and the number of players they bought in."

Make your mind up lads

In regards to the first bit, I agree. That was exactly the main message that I remembered from the media. However, is that not exactly the same message being used to explain Chelsea's performances now (except the relegation bit)? There is a consistency there.

In relation to the second bit, now that Forest have done better, I haven't really felt that is the message being sent out in general. Sure, there may be a few voices saying Forest should be doing better. However, in the mainstream media I have been seeing, Cooper appears to be getting some praise for what he has been able to do. They are ahead of the likes of Leicester, Wolves, Everton, West Ham, Leeds and Southampton and I think they get credit for that. I suspect if Chelsea start string a few good results together, then Potter will also get some credit for gelling such an unsettled time.

The difference between Forest and Chelsea, however, is that as I understand it, Forest needed to bring in lots of players, as many they had last year were no longer at the club? Chelsea didn't. Chelsea could have had a much more structured transfer window, focused on a striker and maybe one or 2 other key positions. But, instead, they appeared to just go out and spend millions on any player, with a decent reputation, that they felt was available. Regardless of whether they have other players in those positions. Potter was only in the door, no time to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the players already at the club, and yet they were just randomly throwing other players into the mix.

So, I suspect Potter would be under more pressure than Cooper ever was, with the media being much tougher on him. However, his saving grace is that it is apparent this is not a squad of players chosen by him. Thus, I think the criticism will mainly be aimed towards the owners.

 

[Aztecs27]

You gonna put Moyes out of a job at the weekend? Or still suffering travel sickness?

Hopefully - add another to the list of manager's we've got sacked this season. (I think a lot of Hammers fans are hoping we do!)

Our away form is pitiful, as pointed out, but you never know, it might all start to click one day.

I'd have your hand off for a point though.

 

[Swango1980]

Listening to the Liverpool fans on the radio today is comedy gold.
Listening to them they want everyone out lol
One thing I can safely say is Harry Maguire would walk into that Liverpool defence.
I said it 3 seasons ago TAA can’t defend,finally Liverpool fans can see it,unfortunately Klopp can’t.
Gomez is worse
Matip is an accident waiting to happen every game.
As one of the callers said VVD legs have gone.
Allison has been good and bad for 2 seasons now.
Liverpools midfield is shocking,it’s like having 4 Fred’s.
Salah scores and puts his finger up to say number one ,I think he was talking about the number of good games he’s had in 3 seasons.
Long may it continue.
Klopp at the wheel

I think he is reminding everyone that he is the best paid player at the club. Got his nice big pay rise, and now he can put his feet up.

Has there ever been a player who has had such a drop in form? I can think of the likes of Torres or Alexi Sanchez.

 

[Aztecs27]

In regards to the first bit, I agree. That was exactly the main message that I remembered from the media. However, is that not exactly the same message being used to explain Chelsea's performances now (except the relegation bit)? There is a consistency there.

In relation to the second bit, now that Forest have done better, I haven't really felt that is the message being sent out in general. Sure, there may be a few voices saying Forest should be doing better. However, in the mainstream media I have been seeing, Cooper appears to be getting some praise for what he has been able to do. They are ahead of the likes of Leicester, Wolves, Everton, West Ham, Leeds and Southampton and I think they get credit for that. I suspect if Chelsea start string a few good results together, then Potter will also get some credit for gelling such an unsettled time.

The difference between Forest and Chelsea, however, is that as I understand it, Forest needed to bring in lots of players, as many they had last year were no longer at the club? Chelsea didn't. Chelsea could have had a much more structured transfer window, focused on a striker and maybe one or 2 other key positions. But, instead, they appeared to just go out and spend millions on any player, with a decent reputation, that they felt was available. Regardless of whether they have other players in those positions. Potter was only in the door, no time to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the players already at the club, and yet they were just randomly throwing other players into the mix.

So, I suspect Potter would be under more pressure than Cooper ever was, with the media being much tougher on him. However, his saving grace is that it is apparent this is not a squad of players chosen by him. Thus, I think the criticism will mainly be aimed towards the owners.

Not sure which mainstream media, everything I read/hear when talking about us is "relegation threatened Forest"...Weirdly not saying "relegation threatened Palace", even though they're a point and a place above us?

MOTD at the weekend is a prime example - Cooper PURPOSEFULLY setup to absorb City's onslaught and take their chances when they came, knowing they'd be few and far between. They frustrated City's front line all day and our CB's kept the best striker in the world to one chance all game (which he should have scored).
The goal Forest scored wasn't a smash and grab, it was a well worked team goal that was perfectly executed and had City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle or a bigger side scored such a goal (22 passes, with every single player touching the ball at least once), they'd have been talking about and analysing it for days and weeks.

You're right about the reason for us having to bring in a vast amount of players....but some people still don't understand and thinks we should be investigated by FFP, despite the fact we spent less on 29 players in two windows than some teams did on 2-3 players in one window .

Regardless of whether Chelsea should or should not have bought in so many players - the argument is still the same (to a point - I agree Potter gets some grace since he had no say in a lot of the players that were bought in before he arrived). You could argue that after a period of time he *should* be able to analyse and get something out of the squad that resembles a team with cohesion, given the talent in the squad, if he's considered a top tier manager.

I think everyone agrees that it's as baffling as anything that Chelsea have bought in so many players unnecessarily. The place is a mess (and I'm all for it ).

Forest are only 10 points away from a European place...

 

[fundy]

Not sure which mainstream media, everything I read/hear when talking about us is "relegation threatened Forest"...Weirdly not saying "relegation threatened Palace", even though they're a point and a place above us?

MOTD at the weekend is a prime example - Cooper PURPOSEFULLY setup to absorb City's onslaught and take their chances when they came, knowing they'd be few and far between. They frustrated City's front line all day and our CB's kept the best striker in the world to one chance all game (which he should have scored).
The goal Forest scored wasn't a smash and grab, it was a well worked team goal that was perfectly executed and had City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle or a bigger side scored such a goal (22 passes, with every single player touching the ball at least once), they'd have been talking about and analysing it for days and weeks.

You're right about the reason for us having to bring in a vast amount of players....but some people still don't understand and thinks we should be investigated by FFP, despite the fact we spent less on 29 players in two windows than some teams did on 2-3 players in one window .

Regardless of whether Chelsea should or should not have bought in so many players - the argument is still the same (to a point - I agree Potter gets some grace since he had no say in a lot of the players that were bought in before he arrived). You could argue that after a period of time he *should* be able to analyse and get something out of the squad that resembles a team with cohesion, given the talent in the squad, if he's considered a top tier manager.

I think everyone agrees that it's as baffling as anything that Chelsea have bought in so many players unnecessarily. The place is a mess (and I'm all for it ).

Forest are only 10 points away from a European place...

If theres an investigation, surely it should be how you had so many players on loan last year that needed replacing

 

[fundy]

Hopefully - add another to the list of manager's we've got sacked this season. (I think a lot of Hammers fans are hoping we do!)

Our away form is pitiful, as pointed out, but you never know, it might all start to click one day.

I'd have your hand off for a point though.

Expect a point would go down well with most and still get Moyes the old tin tack

 

[GreiginFife]

Honestly I’m not seeing it that bad. The previous criticisms that they‘ve been conceeding early and playing from a losing position doesn’t apply. 2 goals up and where they got completely unzipped was through the midfield. Fabinho had an awful game and I agree there were many defensive errors but they’re not shambolic by any stretch. I’d be looking elsewhere look for that badge of honour. Take away 2 bizarre goalie howlers and an awful set piece and the game seems a lot closer than the scoreline reads.

Like it or not Liverpool can make miracles happen, especially in the champions league. Never write them off.

Not sure that reflects the game that I watched TBH Jim. Liverpool's defensive issues were laid bare on several occasions and the set piece goal that Militao scored was just a result of that, as was Benzema's second IMO (he got through far too easily for me). Coupled with not creating enough "real" chances, which seems to be a theme of late. The midfield is problematic, no question, but when you defend like they have been, it's only going one way.

If it were a one off then I could see your point, but for me there's too much of a pattern for it to be "unlucky and closer than it seems".

I do agree that they do have the ability to spring a surprise on the occasion though.

 

[Aztecs27]

If theres an investigation, surely it should be how you had so many players on loan last year that needed replacing

Simple Because we didn't have the Money from getting promoted to buy in loads of players. I believe it's called "living within your means".

And I'm almost certain that getting promoted last season was a bit of a mistake and not part of plan A. We were, essentially, promoted by accident and then had to change tack to build a squad competitive for the PL.

Last season, I think they expected playoffs or top half (having been bottom of the table after 7 games)...and they would see off the loan players in the summer and recruit sensibly to build towards promotion and an eye on the PL, the squad would then be carried through to compete much like Brentford did a few years ago....but after we went up so quickly, those plans went out the window and we had to sign a whole country to get a 25 man squad good enough to play in the top flight.

 

[fundy]

Simple Because we didn't have the Money from getting promoted to buy in loads of players. I believe it's called "living within your means".

Only ribbing lol, does show just how big the gap is between the prem league clubs and championship ones (excluding the yoyos with parachutes in the middle)

 

[Aztecs27]

Only ribbing lol, does show just how big the gap is between the prem league clubs and championship ones (excluding the yoyos with parachutes in the middle)

Aye - see my edit too - I'm 99% certain they DID NOT expect promotion last season. It was always a 2-3 year plan to get back to the PL.

 

[Swango1980]

Not sure which mainstream media, everything I read/hear when talking about us is "relegation threatened Forest"...Weirdly not saying "relegation threatened Palace", even though they're a point and a place above us?

MOTD at the weekend is a prime example - Cooper PURPOSEFULLY setup to absorb City's onslaught and take their chances when they came, knowing they'd be few and far between. They frustrated City's front line all day and our CB's kept the best striker in the world to one chance all game (which he should have scored).
The goal Forest scored wasn't a smash and grab, it was a well worked team goal that was perfectly executed and had City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Newcastle or a bigger side scored such a goal (22 passes, with every single player touching the ball at least once), they'd have been talking about and analysing it for days and weeks.

You're right about the reason for us having to bring in a vast amount of players....but some people still don't understand and thinks we should be investigated by FFP, despite the fact we spent less on 29 players in two windows than some teams did on 2-3 players in one window .

Regardless of whether Chelsea should or should not have bought in so many players - the argument is still the same (to a point - I agree Potter gets some grace since he had no say in a lot of the players that were bought in before he arrived). You could argue that after a period of time he *should* be able to analyse and get something out of the squad that resembles a team with cohesion, given the talent in the squad, if he's considered a top tier manager.

I think everyone agrees that it's as baffling as anything that Chelsea have bought in so many players unnecessarily. The place is a mess (and I'm all for it ).

Forest are only 10 points away from a European place...

The comment "relegation threatened Forest" surly can come as no surprise, as a general theme built up throughout the season. After 10 games they were 19th (Palace 15th), after 15 games they were 20th (Palace 10th), after 20 games they were 13th (Palace 12th) and now they are 13th after 23 games (Palace 12th).

So, clearly Forest were deep within that relegation battle not so long ago. They've now hit a good run, and got themselves out of it. They've been given credit, but of course the fact that they were last not so long ago means that people would be reluctant to completely dismiss the idea they are no longer in a relegation battle. If they keep up their form, they'll continue to get praised and sooner or later get themselves away from that battle. In relation to Palace, they've not really entered that discussion because they've just sort of hovered above the lower end teams. But, they'll certainly enter the discussion if they start getting dragged more into it, which they will if a few of the clubs below them start playing the way some think they should.

Smash and Grab isn't a comment related to the quality of a goal. It is to do with the flow of the game. I think everyone acknowledges that City should have been out of sight, but they didn't manage it. If the underdog then scored the best goal in PL history, it is still a smash and grab result based on the flow of the game.

 

[fundy]

Aye - see my edit too - I'm 99% certain they DID NOT expect promotion last season. It was always a 2-3 year plan to get back to the PL.

Think its going to affect more clubs that come up with how things are now, expect Boro may be a little exposed to it if they come up this season

 

[IanM]

Had to turn off TalkSport this morning. The high pitched squawking was so bad it was upsetting the dog!