The Footie Thread

[clubchamp98]

More first team players than youd think mate...

Backup GK
Starting RB (Cash), Backup CB, Backup CB, Backup LB
Starting CM (Douglas Luiz), Backup, Backup
Staring RW (Bailey) Ings at ST and Coutinho on the left...

More than enough to beat a team in league 2 on paper, but football isnt played on paper and our forwards just could not break Stevenage down.

Absolutely Abysmal

Who was the number11 ?
Probably the weakest attempt at a block I have seen for a long time for the second goal

 

[Bdill93]

Who was the number11 ?
Probably the weakest attempt at a block I have seen for a long time for the second goal

Watkins - came off the bench.

In all fairness I'm not sure if that was his man or not - we were down to 10 men at that point so he may have been doing Dendonker's duties in the box?

 

[clubchamp98]

Watkins - came off the bench.

In all fairness I'm not sure if that was his man or not - we were down to 10 men at that point so he may have been doing Dendonker's duties in the box?

He got out to him though and just turned and dangled a weak leg .
I hate that,

 

[Bdill93]

He got out to him though and just turned and dangled a weak leg .
I hate that,

Meh, we were crap from start to finish - not all on Ollie.

Coutinho needs to go, clearly not up to it any more, cant even find a gap through Stevenage

 

[Tashyboy]

Newcastle reserves is stretching it a little, a few first teamers in the start XI and all the big guns came off the bench after an hour when they were losing, Sheff Wed deserve far more credit based on what I saw of the game, Windass was superb as was McGuinness at the back.

What I did see during the game. jolinton got in behind the defence and the centre half look like muck off a shovel to get back, he could move for a big lad.

 

[Swango1980]

The defender cannot just gamble on the fact someone might be offside and leave the ball though can he?? It's an absolutely flipping joke of a rule. I honestly can't understand how they've buggered the rules up to such a degree nowadays that they're ruining the game. It should be simple. If you're offside when someone tries to pass it to you, you're offside. Why can't it just be that?? It makes me want to cry.

I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions. Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer? Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.

 

[Neilds]

All this talk of 'resting' players and 'concentrating' on other competitions sometimes makes me laugh - especially when managers go on to complain that the team needs time to gel/player A is not match fit etc. Anyone would think they had an excuse ready for all occasions

 

[clubchamp98]

Meh, we were crap from start to finish - not all on Ollie.

Coutinho needs to go, clearly not up to it any more, cant even find a gap through Stevenage

Yes I have never understood why teams bring strikers back for corners.
It takes two to mark him so leave him on the half way line.
Gives the keeper a target as well if he gets the ball.

 

[Orikoru]

I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions. Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer? Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.

I think the answer to your question in bold is yes, and since it's practically impossible to reach that stage, that's exactly why the rules are so utterly useless and incomprehensible now. I keep saying it but they completely jumped the shark with VAR. It should have just been a simple tool that allows the ref to review a decision if he chooses. Not a whole thing where everything has to be black and white, as you say, and common sense is removed somehow. You can't do that in a game as subjective and variable as football. You can say VAR has ruined football, in a roundabout way, but really it hasn't - the idiots implementing it have. There was no need to change any of the football rules to accommodate it, but they've changed several and made them abundantly worse.

 

[Orikoru]

Yes I have never understood why teams bring strikers back for corners.
It takes two to mark him so leave him on the half way line.
Gives the keeper a target as well if he gets the ball.

If the striker is 6 foot 1 and good in the air it makes perfect sense to have him defend a corner. The man you leave up on the halfway line is your rapid 5'8 winger.

 

[Swango1980]

I think the answer to your question in bold is yes, and since it's practically impossible to reach that stage, that's exactly why the rules are so utterly useless and incomprehensible now. I keep saying it but they completely jumped the shark with VAR. It should have just been a simple tool that allows the ref to review a decision if he chooses. Not a whole thing where everything has to be black and white, as you say, and common sense is removed somehow. You can't do that in a game as subjective and variable as football. You can say VAR has ruined football, in a roundabout way, but really it hasn't - the idiots implementing it have. There was no need to change any of the football rules to accommodate it, but they've changed several and made them abundantly worse.

If the answer is Yes, they better think about giving VAR a camera that covers the entire width of the pitch

 

[clubchamp98]

I was going to say that the rule would have changed so that offsides were not given when the offside player is having no influence on the play whatsoever. Say, they might be on the side of the pitch, well away, or just purposely staying out of the action. That seems reasonable to me, as it would be really frustrating if goals were disallowed because a player was on the ground injured near the corner flag, and was offside.

However, you made a very important point, "when someone tries to pass it to you". That is a very good point. Salah scored, so clearly that is a double whammy in terms of interfering with play. However, imagine Salah didn't score, but another Liverpool player (who was onside) ended up coming through and scoring. The very fact the cross was meant for Salah, who was offside, should surely be grounds to award an offside infringement? He is clearly having an influence in play, as he influences his team mates decision to attempt the cross to him, and that influenced the defenders need to try and clear the ball.

They seem to change the rules to suit VAR. However, I don't actually see how this is a VAR issue? VAR can still judge in such things, which include common sense decisions. Are they simply trying to rewrite offside so that, eventually, they can fall upon a rule that requires no common sense or judgement, and a computer can simply give a black or white answer? Regardless of how stupid the outcome actually is at times to the human brain.

It is a VAR issue though.
The rule has changed so they can look at the replays.

When I played years ago .like you say if a ball was played to the right winger but 50yds away there was someone offside on the left wing it was given offside( silly really).
Then they changed it to only offside if the pass was meant for you.
Changed it again But this one now with phases of play ,played on by a defender is purely down to VAR so they can check they have got it correct.
They have made a complete mess of it and handball as well.

 

[clubchamp98]

If the striker is 6 foot 1 and good in the air it makes perfect sense to have him defend a corner. The man you leave up on the halfway line is your rapid 5'8 winger.

Have another look at Watkins challenge.
I would leave him on the halfway.
We always had a big lad and a whippet so big lad wins ball in the air.
This makes the other team leave a big lad back with him so he’s not in your box for the corner.
But tactics have evolved

 

[clubchamp98]

If the answer is Yes, they better think about giving VAR a camera that covers the entire width of the pitch

It’s not the first time this has happened either.
Their not learning ,it’s getting worse imo.

 

[Orikoru]

Have another look at Watkins challenge.
I would leave him on the halfway.
We always had a big lad and a whippet so big lad wins ball in the air.
This makes the other team leave a big lad back with him so he’s not in your box for the corner.
But tactics have evolved

I was just answering generally, I haven't seen any of that. In fact Watkins is closer to the 'rapid winger' than a traditional striker in my analogy. Agree, no point bringing him back if he's not going to be useful in clearing the ball. Harry Kane is always back for corners, but he's that good he's a better defender than most of our centre backs.

 

[clubchamp98]

I was just answering generally, I haven't seen any of that. In fact Watkins is closer to the 'rapid winger' than a traditional striker in my analogy. Agree, no point bringing him back if he's not going to be useful in clearing the ball. Harry Kane is always back for corners, but he's that good he's a better defender than most of our centre backs.

Kane will end up in goal.
He already does the midfielder’s job.
The defenders job at corners .
Just give him the gloves for the full set.
He can still take the pens though

 

[nickjdavis]

I'm not taking anything away from Sheff Wed but to claim it was a big upset doesn't stack up. Newcastle's priority right now is the game on Tuesday, QF of the Carabou Cup. Next up is the league game on Sunday. There is no way the starting 11 on Saturday starts on Tuesday. A few might but most will be on the bench. In the past, the full 1st team would have started every cup game.

I've just checked the line up. Botman, Longstaff & Joelinton are regulars. Isaak will become one but this was his first game back after a long injury. The rest are bench warmers for the knackers yard

Correction applied.

Whilst I never expected a full strength side on Saturday, the players we put out should have had enough application and ability to win. Sadly they displayed neither. Given what is happening at Newcastle, a lot of the players who played on Saturday must surely have realised that first team opportunities will become even more scarce going forward and it is likely that many dont figure in the long term plans of the club. I would have expected this to give a few of them a metaphorical kick up the arse and for them to either attempt to put on a display that either sent a message to the club saying that they could be a valuable asset going forward, or, put themselves in the shop window for other clubs going forward.

But with the possible exception of Manquillo, they didnt.

Wood, Lewis, Murphy, Ritchie, Lascelles, Longstaff, all need to be shown the door (probably Frazer too but he didnt play...though maybe that says plenty in its own right). The young kid Elliot Anderson needs to go out on loan, he is plainly not up to standard and is not getting any game time at reserve level, he needs to play to develop. Quite simply, outside the first 15 players, the squad depth is largely non existent and depending on what happens over the next three weeks during the transfer window, I for one do not expect us to hold on to a top four finish...even top six might be a struggle if things go against us and we don't strengthen the squad depth.

I personally would happily take 7th but I know there would be a backlash from the "short term memory brigade" who now firmly believe we have gate crashed the big six and should be pushing for CL football and anything less will now be a failure. (I've read comments that Carabao Cup QF tomorrow night should not have influenced the team selection for Saturday just gone and its an insignificant competition that we shouldnt be concerned about - there are some right idiots about).

 

[clubchamp98]

Correction applied.

Whilst I never expected a full strength side on Saturday, the players we put out should have had enough application and ability to win. Sadly they displayed neither. Given what is happening at Newcastle, a lot of the players who played on Saturday must surely have realised that first team opportunities will become even more scarce going forward and it is likely that many dont figure in the long term plans of the club. I would have expected this to give a few of them a metaphorical kick up the arse and for them to either attempt to put on a display that either sent a message to the club saying that they could be a valuable asset going forward, or, put themselves in the shop window for other clubs going forward.

But with the possible exception of Manquillo, they didnt.

Wood, Lewis, Murphy, Ritchie, Lascelles, Longstaff, all need to be shown the door (probably Frazer too but he didnt play...though maybe that says plenty in its own right). The young kid Elliot Anderson needs to go out on loan, he is plainly not up to standard and is not getting any game time at reserve level, he needs to play to develop. Quite simply, outside the first 15 players, the squad depth is largely non existent and depending on what happens over the next three weeks during the transfer window, I for one do not expect us to hold on to a top four finish...even top six might be a struggle if things go against us and we don't strengthen the squad depth.

I personally would happily take 7th but I know there would be a backlash from the "short term memory brigade" who now firmly believe we have gate crashed the big six and should be pushing for CL football and anything less will now be a failure. (I've read comments that Carabao Cup QF tomorrow night should not have influenced the team selection for Saturday just gone and its an insignificant competition that we should be concerned about - there are some right idiots about).

I watched this game and have to say I totally agree with you.
Some of the finishing was abysmal for a PL team.

 

[Orikoru]

Kane will end up in goal.
He already does the midfielder’s job.
The defenders job at corners .
Just give him the gloves for the full set.
He can still take the pens though

It's already happened, don't you remember?

I guess it's the one position he has no future in.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

@nickjdavis Cracking summary. Howe is doing a great job of evolving the team, wholesale changes rarely work. Expect to see most of those gone in the summer I reckon.

Totally agree about Anderson. There were a lot of noises about him at the start of the season but he has just lost the last few months. He would be far better out on loan playing week after week.

You are about 2 years ahead of schedule right now, the depth of the squad will take some catching up, understandably.