The Footie Thread

[Tashyboy]

Whilst at the City game over the weekend. It kicked off a few times between the fans. I commented whilst driving to the game “ there are “ fans” that are not happy going to football unless they have had a fight”. It is still a major problem with arrests rising. One of the City pages I follow on Facebook showed a Fulham fan giving it the big I am. Only he is. Dwarf/person of short stature. It is funny to watch. But again that aggressive manner is there.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Spent 6 months working in the BBC Studios in Elstree - staying overnight 3 nights a week - so managed to discover the delights of Borehamwood. And so for the residents of B/Wood I am delighted they have something to be really proud about. It struck me as an odd sort of place - couple of nice restaurants on the 'High Street' mind - Restaurant Mariuca was my favourite - did excellent steaks. Congrats to B/Woof FC.

 

[Orikoru]

I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....

You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides.

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.

 

[Tashyboy]

I played hockey for a number of years, pre and post the no offside rule. In the first few games after it was dropped teams did play a goal hanger but that was soon dropped as the ball would not make it through to them and so they were a wasted player on the pitch. A hockey ball flies far faster across a surface and through the air than a football but it is far harder to control through the air if hit, not flicked. Once it settled down teams played normally but without attackers having fear of playing tight on the last player. In effect, it has been a roaring success and even speaking as a defender I thought it was a great change. For one thing, you no longer had a goal against you when the attacker was clearly offside but it was missed by the umpire. Less stressful, no one to be grumpy with!

Football fans keep complaining about tight offside decisions but then close off when given solutions. I think a no offside trial would be worthwhile. If it didn't work, if football was not compatible with it, then move on. If it did work.........

My own thought is to do it in stages, as hockey did. Have a 25yd line drawn and only be offside beyond that. Trial that first, see how it goes. Baby steps.....

Excellent post. However we are talking about the FA. They would be giraffe steps. That 25 yard line could actually be the 18 yard line for starters. ?

 

[Swango1980]

You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides.

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.

Most of us have played football with no offside rule, when we all get together in a big group for an hourly kickabout. I play in an over-35's 8aside league (on a fairly big pitch) where there is no offside. The league has several teams who have players who have played at a pretty good level previously (pro and semi pro), so they are competent in how to play the game. Yes, there are teams that have a big man up front, but as a player it does not feel like a big issue, nor does it feel so much more exhausting. Currently, a large part of a defenders focus is in playing offside, and controlling the back line. If offside was scrapped, more focus would simply be shifted in defending against the opponents, rather than worrying so much about how you are positioned in relation to the other defenders.

In terms of other consequences of scrapping the rule, I'm sure other measures could be taken if it is a problem worth resolving. For example, maybe opponents need to be at least 5/10 yards away from the keeper when a free kick is taken

 

[Lord Tyrion]

You've confirmed what I was thinking though. That it's more difficult to fire an accurate long ball to a forward and to control it in hockey than it is in football. Hence as I said, centre backs would have to play 30 yards deeper to avoid the punt over their heads to the goal-hanger. Midfielders then have an additional 30 yards of ground to cover so everyone other than Kanté would be blowing out of their backsides.

There are other things to consider as well, like free kicks. What if the attacking side puts two players directly in front of the keeper to block his view or block him from diving easily. At the moment offside takes care of this because they'd be deemed interfering from an offside position.

You might have to refine bits of it but I think it is a concept worth trialling. Don't forget, hockey has been through all of this already so speak to the officials there, watch some games, see how they handle it. Teams soon adapt and work out ways of stopping attackers.

 

[Orikoru]

Most of us have played football with no offside rule, when we all get together in a big group for an hourly kickabout. I play in an over-35's 8aside league (on a fairly big pitch) where there is no offside. The league has several teams who have players who have played at a pretty good level previously (pro and semi pro), so they are competent in how to play the game. Yes, there are teams that have a big man up front, but as a player it does not feel like a big issue, nor does it feel so much more exhausting. Currently, a large part of a defenders focus is in playing offside, and controlling the back line. If offside was scrapped, more focus would simply be shifted in defending against the opponents, rather than worrying so much about how you are positioned in relation to the other defenders.

In terms of other consequences of scrapping the rule, I'm sure other measures could be taken if it is a problem worth resolving. For example, maybe opponents need to be at least 5/10 yards away from the keeper when a free kick is taken

7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game. So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change

Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - what would be the reason for removing offsides in football ?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game. So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.

Actually you don't. Leave him there, he is wasting his time and will soon move. A defender needs to keep an eye on him but he can manage the space. If someone wants to ping him a 50yd ball then there is a good chance that the defender can pick it off. If not then he just needs to move across and deal with him when he gets the ball only.

 

[Swango1980]

7 and 8 a side pitches are much smaller, generally about a third of a full pitch and you would still play a 3 or 4 line formation, so the lines are obviously closer together. It's also narrower. There really isn't much space to lob it to a goalhanger which is why the offside rule isn't needed there. From what you're saying all defending would just be man-for-man for the whole game. So if say, Lukaku just decided to stand still out on the right wing, the defending team have to leave one of their centre backs just marking him all game. Following him round whenever he moves, but all other aspects, that defender is pretty much out of the game. I just think it would be bizarre.

I'd imagine teams would more likely play a sweeper, with other defending players (including defensively minded midfielders) moving out to protect the flanks when required.

I don't think it would result in an attacker just hanging out on the edge of the box, getting a long ball with acres of space, and just tapping it past the keeper. They'd need to be more intelligent than that, as defending teams could deal with that pretty easily. I think they'd need to shift themselves up and down the pitch to try and drag the last defender up the pitch, and then hopefully create space behind them for themselves or teammates (if they want to exploit space behind the defenders).

It is a very interesting idea though. Initially my reaction was "no way, offside is an integral part of the game". However, the more I think of it, I'd love to see it trialled.

 

[Swango1980]

why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change

Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - what would be the reason for removing offsides in football ?

Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored

 

[Orikoru]

Actually you don't. Leave him there, he is wasting his time and will soon move. A defender needs to keep an eye on him but he can manage the space. If someone wants to ping him a 50yd ball then there is a good chance that the defender can pick it off. If not then he just needs to move across and deal with him when he gets the ball only.

Not if Lukaku is already goalside of the defenders by 20-30 yards, there's no way they catch him. It would be an easy ball over the defence and he's through on goal.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored

It’s a tournament and at time it’s cagey , the players aren’t that great , pitches at times awful , standard of defending better than the standard of attacking

Is that really a reason to remove offside’s? Because some players aren’t good enough ?

 

[Tashyboy]

Did you watch the African Cup of Nations? I think there were 26 games in which no more than 1 goal was scored

The games I saw were purgatory

 

[Orikoru]

I'd imagine teams would more likely play a sweeper, with other defending players (including defensively minded midfielders) moving out to protect the flanks when required.

I don't think it would result in an attacker just hanging out on the edge of the box, getting a long ball with acres of space, and just tapping it past the keeper. They'd need to be more intelligent than that, as defending teams could deal with that pretty easily. I think they'd need to shift themselves up and down the pitch to try and drag the last defender up the pitch, and then hopefully create space behind them for themselves or teammates (if they want to exploit space behind the defenders).

It is a very interesting idea though. Initially my reaction was "no way, offside is an integral part of the game". However, the more I think of it, I'd love to see it trialled.

I would love to see it, in a pre-season friendly tournament or something, just as an experiment. I agree with you that formations would certainly go back to having a sweeper-type player who's job is literally just to be the last man and patrol the 'goal-hanger'.

why get rid of offsides on football ? It worked in hockey because of the dynamic of the games and the way the sport moves when you’re playing it and yes I played hockey to good level both before and after the change

Football gets enough goals and is exciting enough - what would be the reason for removing offsides in football ?

I guess because the authorities are so incapable of writing and enforcing a sensible rule these days that people think they're better of scrapping them altogether.

 

[Swango1980]

Not if Lukaku is already goalside of the defenders by 20-30 yards, there's no way they catch him. It would be an easy ball over the defence and he's through on goal.

If the defending team give any player a 20-30 yard headstart, then the fault lies with them, not the fact offside does not exist. Maybe they were mistaken and though offside was still a rule, so simply need to be reminded.

 

[Swango1980]

It’s a tournament and at time it’s cagey , the players aren’t that great , pitches at times awful , standard of defending better than the standard of attacking

Is that really a reason to remove offside’s? Because some players aren’t good enough ?

I didn't say AFCON was a reason to scrap offside, just using it as an example that maybe there are not enough goals. That is subjective to each individual fan though.

 

[Orikoru]

If the defending team give any player a 20-30 yard headstart, then the fault lies with them, not the fact offside does not exist. Maybe they were mistaken and though offside was still a rule, so simply need to be reminded.

Eh? I think you've come at this backwards and confused what I was saying. Basically yes, I was saying that defenders would have to radically alter how the defender to combat a goalhanger like this. It seemed like LT was saying they could just leave him on his own and make up the ground somehow.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I didn't say AFCON was a reason to scrap offside, just using it as an example that maybe there are not enough goals. That is subjective to each individual fan though.

Maybe some games don’t have that many goals because a team are very good at defending - is defending also not a skill to admired as well ?

It’s the sort of stuff that someone in the USA would dream up because they need more excitement

Just pandering to FIFA generation