The all things EV chat thread
- Thread starter need_my_wedge
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PJ87
Journeyman Pro
whilst you are correct @Mudball is getting onto the cheap cheap smart charging... so he is trying to save money.. if he just set the charger up to work when plugged in and pay the flat rate it would be simple
so it will work, the "intelligent" part can have teething issues
the issues are enough to put me off spending £1000 to get a compatible charger to allow me to get onto the tariff .. my charger just comes on every day 00:30-04:30 in the cheap hours .. standard cheap rate.. i plug in .. it works.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Reading though Mudballs story shows how it all is in real life and for many it’s just not worth the effort when the gain is so little if any - it’s far too much hassle and planning just for something that is normally so simple. Get in car , if it needs juice then pop to the filling station
Mudball
Assistant Pro
In many ways it kills the concept of ‘let me jump into the drive up’..
i was having the same discussion with couple of my young tree hugging londeners and hardy northern. We came to the conclusion that .. it is alright in the city or it is best as a second car where you have an ICE car..
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
whilst you cant say your experience is perfect , not having the charger installed previous to the car arriving is an oversight. the 3 pin cable isnt ideal but is a good back up when you need it. if you had the charger installed from day 1 then the majority of the issues would be avoided.. where as my "real world situation" is having a charger installed and its been seamless.
Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
I'm sorry.....no ifs, buts or excuses..
It shouldn't be this difficult.
It just shouldn't.....
It shouldn't be this difficult.
It just shouldn't.....
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
I will agree that the public chargers are difficult and SHOULDNT be difficult. they should all be contactless. no apps.
home chargers are not difficult providing you just want to pay the normal rate..
if my home battery fails and I have a power cut is it the power companies fault or mine for trying to save money by having the system? its mine.. same with the car.. if your trying to get onto the cheapest tariff which needs input by yourself compared to plug and play then its not the car at fault. its a combination.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Buying the EV early was the oversight. We were planning to get the charger at some point. The ev was due only mid year. But we got a great deal that would have been silly not to take up.. so these things happen. All our car buying journeys are different .. the world is not perfect
Mudball
Assistant Pro
Don’t get me started… BMW X3 premium by BMW insurance is about 700… BMW iX by BMW insurance is nearly 1300 for the same drivers. Mind you the iX is nearly double the price of the X3
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Well that's true, nothing is perfect and if it's a good deal then you are silly not to. Plenty of good deals out there due to wokingams post above
Turns out my Kia (arrives wed) is £65 cheaper to insure so I'm getting a refund which is nice. I have no idea why a 42k Kia which is more powerful than the Corsa (that brand new would be 35k but is insured for a lot less) is cheaper than the Corsa
But like you say getting that was because of a good deal. Managed to get out the lease on the Corsa at half the cost so that's decent.
D
Deleted member 29109
Guest
Is the guy who bought a Porsche and complains it’s expensive?
You have to wonder how someone so dim has managed to get themselves into a position to be able to afford one
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Is the guy who bought a Porsche and complains it’s expensive?
You have to wonder how someone so dim has managed to get themselves into a position to be able to afford one
All cars are money pits. It's why leasing is so popular you just pay for that depreciation
EV will always depreciate more due to changing battery tech and costs .. the price of lithium has really dropped
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
This is one of the best car YouTubers out there . Not an EV head by any means and gives a real balanced take
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
My take on the whole EV thing.
I personally might be persuaded to have a small EV for local inner city driving as a 2nd car if I was convinced that the whole concept was a sound one.
I'm not convinced though.
Why?
I think the current technology is in its infancy & flawed.
I view the current state of affairs as a stopgap until better technology is developed.
The things that put me off are.
1. The charging time when away from home
2. Battery degradation over time
3. The cost of battery replacement
4. The depreciation from new
When these EV'S get to about 7 or 8 years old, I really can't see a decent used market for them, a quality ice vehicle of that age will still command a decent price, but I can't see that being the case for an EV.
There was talk a while ago of either perfecting hydrogen as a fuel cell or to power a modified ice vehicle.
Alternatively, there was also talk of solid state batteries being developed which don't degrade over time, have super long range & very quick charge times.
I would imagine something like that is where we are eventually headed.
If these options come to fruition, there will be masses of unwanted & discarded lithium powered EV's in the dealers.
I think EV'S definitely have a future, but not in there current guise.
I personally might be persuaded to have a small EV for local inner city driving as a 2nd car if I was convinced that the whole concept was a sound one.
I'm not convinced though.
Why?
I think the current technology is in its infancy & flawed.
I view the current state of affairs as a stopgap until better technology is developed.
The things that put me off are.
1. The charging time when away from home
2. Battery degradation over time
3. The cost of battery replacement
4. The depreciation from new
When these EV'S get to about 7 or 8 years old, I really can't see a decent used market for them, a quality ice vehicle of that age will still command a decent price, but I can't see that being the case for an EV.
There was talk a while ago of either perfecting hydrogen as a fuel cell or to power a modified ice vehicle.
Alternatively, there was also talk of solid state batteries being developed which don't degrade over time, have super long range & very quick charge times.
I would imagine something like that is where we are eventually headed.
If these options come to fruition, there will be masses of unwanted & discarded lithium powered EV's in the dealers.
I think EV'S definitely have a future, but not in there current guise.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Whilst your post is excellent 2 and 3 have been addressed a lot recently
EV batteries degrade, all batteries do it's a fact. However it's built into the power cycle. 100% is not 100% and 0 isn't 0. There is a built in buffer each side to protect the cells and also give "100" as long as possible
You get an 8 year warranty as standard with the battery on all EVs I believe now however the cost to replace is always quoted as new however now you can get batteries from written off cars.. etc to save cost (much like if you needed a new engine in a car do you get brand new or a breakers yard?)
The rest is completely correct the charge network needs improving. If you want seamless ATM you need a Tesla for their network but that means bowing to Elon.
Green Man
Assistant Pro
My experience is slightly different. Just took delivery of a Tesla last week. I already had a 7kW charger installed by British Gas last year.
Plugged the car in to charge. Then went on the octopus app and changed my tariff to intelligent go. Took about 5 mins to link to the car and set up.
In the Octopus app set to charge to 80%. Next day all was good.
The app tells you when they are going to charge depending on your current charge taking into account off peak rates.
Now have 6 hours (23:30-05:40) at 7.5p per kW.
To be honest I can’t see how it could be easier. Don’t know if it’s because it’s a Tesla or I just got lucky.
Plugged the car in to charge. Then went on the octopus app and changed my tariff to intelligent go. Took about 5 mins to link to the car and set up.
In the Octopus app set to charge to 80%. Next day all was good.
The app tells you when they are going to charge depending on your current charge taking into account off peak rates.
Now have 6 hours (23:30-05:40) at 7.5p per kW.
To be honest I can’t see how it could be easier. Don’t know if it’s because it’s a Tesla or I just got lucky.
Captain_Black.
Well-known member
I believe there is a misconception surrounding EV battery warranty.
Although it's true that the warranty period has been extended somewhat from the norm.
It's a staged warranty.
I.E, in the 1st 2 to 3 years, if the battery fails, providing a new one can be sourced (I wouldn't be confident about that with say a Chinese EV) the battery will be replaced foc.
But, with some manufacturers, by the time you get to year 3 & beyond, you may only get a percentage on the cost of a new battery.
By the the time you get to year 6 or 7, you may only get as little as 10 or 20% of the replacement cost.
Then there is the damage aspect.
Batteries in a Tesla are built into the floor & covered by a metal plate.
There have been quite a few instances of people putting a dent in the underside plate covering the batteries over rough ground or hitting an object.
When this happens, nobody can ascertain if there has been any damage to the batteries themselves, as the replacement cost is so high, the insurance company will write the car off.
Lots of pitfalls with an EV, which people don't think about whe they are relatively new.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
Yes Tesla are a different kettle of fish. They have been working in the EV market for years, they also were one of the first to be on octopus intelligent so their integration is seamless compared. All the bugs are worked out.
For example my niro WAS on the list of cars but it caused draining of the 12 volt battery so they got removed under they can fix the bug to get them back on..so it's a dynamic market . All people that were already on have been told just charge at the cheap rate but any newbies like myself aren't allowed to sign up.
PJ87
Journeyman Pro
the first reason about sourcing is spot on, its why I didnt go for MG because I just wasnt sure compared to KIA (which is why I went for them) I dont think the % is spot on but what they do is they only guarentee 70% .. so if the battery is degraded to 80% then its not replaced its only below 70%
"
Then there is the damage aspect.
Batteries in a Tesla are built into the floor & covered by a metal plate.
There have been quite a few instances of people putting a dent in the underside plate covering the batteries over rough ground or hitting an object.
When this happens, nobody can ascertain if there has been any damage to the batteries themselves, as the replacement cost is so high, the insurance company will write the car off."
this is spot on and ridiculous how insurance companies would rather write off the car than fix it when its actually pretty simple. there was an article (I posted a few weeks ago) about how manufacturers need to make fixing them easier (ie the parts because they are cheap just not available) there are a few specialists who will repair them at the cost they should be on a car an insurer would just write off.
