The all things EV chat thread

[Dibby]

More than 800,000 British motorists break down every year - because their vehicle runs out of fuel - Mirror Online

That can happen in any vehicle, the thing is what happens next?

You call the AA/RAC or a mate and they turn up with a jerry can and in a couple of minutes you're sorted, versus an EV where your mate can't help at all, and even after the AA/RAC get there you have to wait 30-60 mins to have partial range back, which still leaves you potentially heading to a charger and hanging around depending on your destination.

If EVs are going to take off I see them using some kind of fuel cell that can be filled up like petrol can now, not with current battery tech for sure.

 

[PJ87]

That can happen in any vehicle, the thing is what happens next?

You call the AA/RAC or a mate and they turn up with a jerry can and in a couple of minutes you're sorted, versus an EV where your mate can't help at all, and even after the AA/RAC get there you have to wait 30-60 mins to have partial range back, which still leaves you potentially heading to a charger and hanging around depending on your destination.

If EVs are going to take off I see them using some kind of fuel cell that can be filled up like petrol can now, not with current battery tech for sure.

But again it's 10 years away before the decisions for many will start to be made

So much will change in 10 years

I'd say to the people buying that electric porche they struggled to charge etc it doesn't sound like it actually fits their lifestyle ..

Most people I know who run electric cars and are happy have ice cars aswell as in the wife's car etc so their second car is cheaper to run but if they need to drive the full length of the country they can and not run to the papers

 

[williamalex1]

I just wonder why it's necessary to have charging points at carparks that only allow you to stay a maximum of 2 hours.
Also why are they needed at your local train station carpark when the car is going to be just sitting there all day, surely having only travelled a short distance to get there .

 

[Bunkermagnet]

But again it's 10 years away before the decisions for many will start to be made

So much will change in 10 years

And so much wont change in 10 years. To be able to supply enough EV's and have the infrastructure to cope you would need to have it fully up to speed in 7 years and that just isn't going to happen.
Electric powered cars may be the way forward, but supplied by cables in the street or anywhere isn't the answer, hydrogen fuel cell is the only answer.
When you consider it took longer than 10 years to lay out the tv cable network, and that still isn't really complete. The Government isn't going to have the money to do the infrastructure and anyone who thinks the private sector is going to do it out of kindness for us all is on another planet.

 

[williamalex1]

And so much wont change in 10 years. To be able to supply enough EV's and have the infrastructure to cope you would need to have it fully up to speed in 7 years and that just isn't going to happen.
Electric powered cars may be the way forward, but supplied by cables in the street or anywhere isn't the answer, hydrogen fuel cell is the only answer.
When you consider it took longer than 10 years to lay out the tv cable network, and that still isn't really complete. The Government isn't going to have the money to do the infrastructure and anyone who thinks the private sector is going to do it out of kindness for us all is on another planet.

Most street lights already have a constant 240 volt supply there, so it should only need a suitable charging transformer outlet fitted to lamp posts. Not nearly as much work involved as was with the TV cable network set up.

 

[USER1999]

Most street lights already have a constant 240 volt supply there, so it should only need a suitable charging transformer outlet fitted to lamp posts. Not nearly as much work involved as was with the TV cable network set up.

Hmm, they might need much thicker cables, much thicker. An LED or HID Street light is what, 50W? If every lamp post needs to supply say 20kWh, that is a world of difference, and 20kWh won't charge that Porsche or Tesla any time soon.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Most street lights already have a constant 240 volt supply there, so it should only need a suitable charging transformer outlet fitted to lamp posts. Not nearly as much work involved as was with the TV cable network set up.

I'm no electrician, but is the cable network to provide 1 light even 100 yards up to providing a charging point every 10 yards or less?

 

[Mandofred]

Electrify the roads.....passive charging. Then we can complain about getting cancer from the roads....

 

[williamalex1]

Hmm, they might need much thicker cables, much thicker. An LED or HID Street light is what, 50W? If every lamp post needs to supply say 20kWh, that is a world of difference, and 20kWh won't charge that Porsche or Tesla any time soon.

The original street lighting lamps were sodium some halogen and up to 300 watts supply cables were 16mm2 if i remember correct. . Large enough to run all the extra xmas lights.

 

[Sweep]

Are you limited to how long you can keep your car plugged in to a public supply? For example, if it takes an hour to charge, can you park for over that time whilst you go about your business thus depriving someone else of the ability to use that charging point?

I understand with Tesla you can be charged if you leave it too long on one of their Superchargers when the site is more than 50% full. When charging is complete you get a message on your app. Usually Tesla charge cost by kw but some do charge cost on time.
It’s a good point and something which will need to be addressed as EVs become prevalent.
I am not sure if it’s the same with others, but again with Tesla I understand there is “charger etiquette” ?. eg. Superchargers have 2 plugs each, but if both are used it slows down the charging rate, so if other chargers are available, use those instead of one being used.

 

[williamalex1]

I'm no electrician, but is the cable network to provide 1 light even 100 yards up to providing a charging point every 10 yards or less?

I'm a retire electrician but I think trickle or full charging would be feasible from street lighting circuits. Any experts ??
Edit - IN DAYLIGHT WHEN THE LIGHTS ARE NOT IN USE

 

[Blue in Munich]

I'm a retire electrician but I think trickle or full charging would be feasible from street lighting circuits. Any experts ??
Edit - IN DAYLIGHT WHEN THE LIGHTS ARE NOT IN USE

So all good if you work permanent nights then? Because most people will use their cars during the day and want to charge them overnight whilst they're asleep. Sorry mate, I don't necessarily see this working without one hell of an upgrade to the system. Knowing how often we get glitches round here as it is, it will only get worse if everyone is charging cars.

 

[williamalex1]

So all good if you work permanent nights then? Because most people will use their cars during the day and want to charge them overnight whilst they're asleep. Sorry mate, I don't necessarily see this working without one hell of an upgrade to the system. Knowing how often we get glitches round here as it is, it will only get worse if everyone is charging cars.

Some people may have drive quite a distance to their work place and the car will sits there all day and will need charging.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Some people may have drive quite a distance to their work place and the car will sits there all day and will need charging.

There's something like 40 of us in our building, maximum of 9 but normal 8 places on the front, rest in the communal car park at the bottom or in spare places on the road. It's privately owned and I really can't see the owners spotting for the number or chargers needed to make that work.

Sorry mate, but I just don't think this has been properly thought through and I don't think I'm alone in that;

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2020/09/bill...k-buyers-still-think-2035-too-soon-to-switch/

"Extensive analysis by SMMT and Frost and Sullivan also shows that a full, zero emission-capable UK new car market will require 1.7 million public charge points by the end of the decade and 2.8 million by 2035. Given there are only some 19,314 on-street charge points today, the task is massive, needing 507 on-street chargers to be installed per day until 2035 at a cost of £16.7 billion."

Given the cost involved and the fact that the country is slowly disappearing financially up creek without a paddle in an inflatable with a puncture (in fairness due to circumstances out of anybody's control) is this really achievable? It's a great soundbite but I really don't think they realise the enormity of the task.

 

[PJ87]

There's something like 40 of us in our building, maximum of 9 but normal 8 places on the front, rest in the communal car park at the bottom or in spare places on the road. It's privately owned and I really can't see the owners spotting for the number or chargers needed to make that work.

sorry mate, but I just don't think this has been properly thought through and I don't think I'm alone in that;

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2020/09/bill...k-buyers-still-think-2035-too-soon-to-switch/

"Extensive analysis by SMMT and Frost and Sullivan also shows that a full, zero emission-capable UK new car market will require 1.7 million public charge points by the end of the decade and 2.8 million by 2035. Given there are only some 19,314 on-street charge points today, the task is massive, needing 507 on-street chargers to be installed per day until 2035 at a cost of £16.7 billion."

Given the cost involved and the fact that the country is slowly disappearing financially up creek without a paddle in an inflatable with a puncture (in fairness due to circumstances out of anybody's control) is this really achievable? It's a great soundbite but I really don't think they realise the enormity of the task.

Whilst I agree it's costing a fortune, and it has been rushed through

We have to address climate change and this will help.

I know you said about electric used being dirty but I was discussing today and apparently using gas to make electric is 98% effient and only 2% is lost in heat , where as ICE it's as low as 40% efficient with 60 of energy lost so much more efficent

Also the 15 new mini nuclear pod power plants being built sounds amazing

We may be throwing money at it but how many jobs does it create? Which brings money back in tax and boosts the economy with people able to spend

However again I agree it's very quick. It needs to be planned well (which we don't do)

 

[Deleted member 3432]

Whilst I agree it's costing a fortune, and it has been rushed through

We have to address climate change and this will help.

I know you said about electric used being dirty but I was discussing today and apparently using gas to make electric is 98% effient and only 2% is lost in heat , where as ICE it's as low as 40% efficient with 60 of energy lost so much more efficent

Also the 15 new mini nuclear pod power plants being built sounds amazing

We may be throwing money at it but how many jobs does it create? Which brings money back in tax and boosts the economy with people able to spend

However again I agree it's very quick. It needs to be planned well (which we don't do)

15 new mini nuclear power plants is going to create a lot of high level waste and the UK's nuclear reprocessing programmes are winding down, final reprocessing plant closes within 12 months at Sellafield with around 10 years to make safe(r) stored high level waste.

UK strategy of dealing with current stored waste and future waste is to dig a big hole and bury it underground but who wants that in their back yard? Government seems keenest to bury it under the Lake District National Park probably due to the fact it is fairly isolated, low population (a long way from London...) and generally a poor region but the area was deemed to be geologically unsuitable many years ago although it appears they want to pursue this option again.

Thorium reactors are suggested as a cleaner alternative as it does not produce plutonium unlike conventional reactors but to my knowledge there are non online at present.

Lots of negatives to producing more electricity to cope with future increased demand.

 

[PJ87]

15 new mini nuclear power plants is going to create a lot of high level waste and the UK's nuclear reprocessing programmes are winding down, final reprocessing plant closes within 12 months at Sellafield with around 10 years to make safe(r) stored high level waste.

UK strategy of dealing with current stored waste and future waste is to dig a big hole and bury it underground but who wants that in their back yard? Government seems keenest to bury it under the Lake District National Park probably due to the fact it is fairly isolated, low population (a long way from London...) and generally a poor region but the area was deemed to be geologically unsuitable many years ago although it appears they want to pursue this option again.

Thorium reactors are suggested as a cleaner alternative as it does not produce plutonium unlike conventional reactors but to my knowledge there are non online at present.

Lots of negatives to producing more electricity to cope with future increased demand.

But again even if we all switched to electric tomorrow the grid say it would only increase demand by 10% which is well within their tolerance levels

 

[Deleted member 3432]

But again even if we all switched to electric tomorrow the grid say it would only increase demand by 10% which is well within their tolerance levels

Only 1 current Nuclear plant to be operating beyond 2030 which roughly 20% of UK's electricity production.

 

[PJ87]

Only 1 current Nuclear plant to be operating beyond 2030 which roughly 20% of UK's electricity production.

The 15 new mini power plants some will be online by thenhttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-51233444

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Maybe hydrogen powered cars are the way forward?