Summer knock-out, playing against ladies.

[Twire]

I entered our summer knock-out a month or so ago and the draw was made over Easter I believe. When entering I assumed it was a men's competition as I've played in it before and never noticed any ladies names. I've just had a phone call from a lady member trying to set a date when we can play the first round.... I nearly fell off my chair.

Now how does this work as regards shots. I'm off 14 she's off 20 so I give her 6 shots no problem. What happens when we come to 4 of our holes when the ladies get an extra shot ie 4 of our par 4's are 5's for the ladies. Take our 3rd for example par 4 SI 1 for the men and par 5 SI 3 for the ladies now I have to give her a shot on this hole and she gets an extra shot for it being a par 5 for ladies, am I now giving her 2 shots on that hole?

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I agree that seems odd, but it also seems right to me.

She has a handicap of 20 based on the course that she plays, and you have a 14 handicap based on the course you play - I can't see how you get around that.

 

[Twire]

I can see where your coming from with the handicap based on the course you play, but 3 out of the 4 extra pars I have to give her a shot.

Would it not be better giving her 4 courtesy shots and then play off the men's card at least that way I wouldn't be giving 2 shots on 3 holes.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

I can see where your coming from with the handicap based on the course you play, but 3 out of the 4 extra pars I have to give her a shot.

Would it not be better giving her 4 courtesy shots and then play off the men's card at least that way I wouldn't be giving 2 shots on 3 holes.

Surely though, you give her a shot on those holes because notwithstanding that the par is higher for ladies than men on those holes, it is still one of the 6 most difficult holes on the course? So, on that basis giving her two shots on those particular holes would be appropriate.

It'll all even out over the course of the round.

 

[cookelad]

You'll probably be giving her an extra couple of courtesy shots to make up for the difference in SSS assuming your white SSS is lower than the ladies from there I believe you play off the white card (par irrelevant) but using the white stroke index. She'll know the score exactly but that's my understanding of it!

 

[ArnoldArmChewer]

I agree that seems odd, but it also seems right to me.

She has a handicap of 20 based on the course that she plays, and you have a 14 handicap based on the course you play - I can't see how you get around that.

Simple, ladies play ladies, men play men.

 

[rosecott]

My understanding of the CONGU recommendations in this situation is:

1. Players play from their own respective tees - i.e. the course on which the handicap is based.
2. The difference in SSS is applied to the handicap of the player whose course has the higher SSS - e.g. Mens' SSS 72, ladies' SSS 74, 2 shots added to the lady's handicap - or vice versa.
3. Either the mens card and SIs to be used or the ladies card and SIs - the organisers should lay this down on the Conditions of Competition.

 

[Twire]

My understanding of the CONGU recommendations in this situation is:

1. Players play from their own respective tees - i.e. the course on which the handicap is based.
2. The difference in SSS is applied to the handicap of the player whose course has the higher SSS - e.g. Mens' SSS 72, ladies' SSS 74, 2 shots added to the lady's handicap - or vice versa.
3. Either the mens card and SIs to be used or the ladies card and SIs - the organisers should lay this down on the Conditions of Competition.

That sounds more like it.

Men's SSS 71 Ladies SSS (from memory) 74 that's 3 courtesy shots.

I won't be able to get to the club until the weekend to confirm but just thought I'd pose the question here to see how other clubs do it.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Simple, ladies play ladies, men play men.

Not really an issue since we have a handicapping system to even things up.... as it does between "good" players and hackers.

The club should have rules for this but, in all likelihood, the ladies and gents SSS will be compared and the number of strokes over the round will be adjusted accordingly (up or down as required).

We only play this in a couple of fun matches over the year and that's what happens. However, in addition, the ladies get two "bisks" - extra strokes we can take on any hole we nominate. And we can nominate the hole after we've holed out! Seemed greatly unfair to me the one time I played and I proclaimed that under these rules the ladies "could not lose". Indeed, I won something like 5&4 and still had the "bisks" in reserve. However, the ladies lost the match.... still can't understand how! I don't imagine there's anything like that in a proper club competition.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

My understanding of the CONGU recommendations in this situation is:

1. Players play from their own respective tees - i.e. the course on which the handicap is based.
2. The difference in SSS is applied to the handicap of the player whose course has the higher SSS - e.g. Mens' SSS 72, ladies' SSS 74, 2 shots added to the lady's handicap - or vice versa.
3. Either the mens card and SIs to be used or the ladies card and SIs - the organisers should lay this down on the Conditions of Competition.

I can see that this makes good sense. Particularly where the ladies have a different stroke index to the men.

 

[Wayman]

You'll probably be giving her an extra couple of courtesy shots to make up for the difference in SSS assuming your white SSS is lower than the ladies from there I believe you play off the white card (par irrelevant) but using the white stroke index. She'll know the score exactly but that's my understanding of it!

Yes that's what you do.

Seems a bit daft men and woman in same comp :s

 

[Twire]

Seems a bit daft men and woman in same comp :s

To be honest this is the first time I've noticed it, been a member there for 7 years. Maybe it's been introduced this year. I'll find out more when I get to the club at the weekend.

 

[fundy]

Be happy to play against the women in ours personally, I play in one mixed greensome knockout and the women are so organised and the match is arranged within days of the draw going up, on the other hand I have a handful of various mens knockout matches to organise and not even touched base with any of them lol and arranging with some of them can be a real pain

 

[rosecott]

I'm surprised that FairwayDodger hasn't reacted to the mention of courtesy shots. The shots are the difference between the SSSs of the 2 courses - and the difference could go either way. Courtesy doesn't come into it!

 

[fundy]

I'm surprised that FairwayDodger hasn't reacted to the mention of courtesy shots. The shots are the difference between the SSSs of the 2 courses - and the difference could go either way. Courtesy doesn't come into it!

no, in some comps ive been in (not at current club) theyve been known to add them on as well after the SSS difference lol

 

[cookelad]

I'm surprised that FairwayDodger hasn't reacted to the mention of courtesy shots. The shots are the difference between the SSSs of the 2 courses - and the difference could go either way. Courtesy doesn't come into it!

Just what I've always heard them called by the girls at my old course!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I'm surprised that FairwayDodger hasn't reacted to the mention of courtesy shots. The shots are the difference between the SSSs of the 2 courses - and the difference could go either way. Courtesy doesn't come into it!

I'm more tolerant than people think!

 

[6inchcup]

Just play your game and treat her as you would a man,don't fall into the trap of thinking its only a woman,play fair but don't give her anything,put the pressure on early and try to have a few holes in the bag before these holes.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

That sounds more like it.

Men's SSS 71 Ladies SSS (from memory) 74 that's 3 courtesy shots.

I won't be able to get to the club until the weekend to confirm but just thought I'd pose the question here to see how other clubs do it.

That is what happens
Men play white tees, ladies red.
Generally speaking the shots are from the men's card which usually makes it a wee bit harder for the women.
If the women's SSS is lower than the mens the shots are in advantage to the man.

 

[North Mimms]

I'm more tolerant than people think!

I'm not...I was halfway to typing a shouty "they're not courtesy shots!!!" when I read Rosecott's correction.