Submitting cards

[Backache]

If your rounds are not played according to the RoG you should not be submitting them, few of mine are.
Golf is also a pastime to be enjoyed.I rarely take a scorecard out on the course and I'm not going to start now.

 

[Backsticks]

Which is fine, as long as you dont enter competitions. Nothing wrong with not putting cards in as long as one accepts the consequence that one then doesnt have a handicap.

 

[Golfmmad]

Yes, that first part is a statement I can totally agree with.
As with so many things in this world, there is no singular right and wrong that can be applied to every golfer.
As long as we are all being honest in the cards we submit, it should be fair.
For example, I play in a lot of league matches and club knockouts, so can't always play in a medal or stableford (only 1 each per month), so I felt I had to use other cards to ensure I can look in the mirror and know I'm not cheating any opposition.

This all day long.
For me it's, do you want a handicap or not. If you're serious about golf and handicap then the majority of cards should be put in and of course registering with the pro shop first.

On the other hand, if you're just playing for fun and not concerned about a handicap carry on and fill yer boots.
The whole point of WHS is it should reflect your true golfing ability. Therefore the only way is to keep submitting those cards.

 

[Backsticks]

This all day long.
For me it's, do you want a handicap or not. If you're serious about golf and handicap then the majority of cards should be put in and of course registering with the pro shop first.

On the other hand, if you're just playing for fun and not concerned about a handicap carry on and fill yer boots.
The whole point of WHS is it should reflect your true golfing ability. Therefore the only way is to keep submitting those cards.

You do not have to measure something constantly that is not going to change rapidly, to know its level. Nobodies golf level changes in a round. Or two. Or three. As long as the sampling, or sumitting of cards, is sufficient to the possible rate of change, then you have a sufficiently precise measurement.
But what is sufficient in golf. I do think about 1 in 4 is ample.
Consider someone playing 4 times a week every week. If they put in a card every week, I think that will track any improvement or disimprovement well enough.
Consider some who only plays one game per week. Their game will not change rapidly. A card a month will track that.
If you reach 50% or beyond it is even too much. You dont need to check your watch every minute to know what the time is.

 

[Swango1980]

Must admit I know very few people who play a provisional outside competition , virtually everyone I know just drops near where they think the ball was lost, or just carry on to the next hole.

Maybe it is just the culture of the people I play with at my old and new club. All of them are regular competition players, so it is instinct to play to the rules. Hit an awful shot, they hit a provisional. It doesn't take long, and perhaps they spend less time looking for their original if they know they have another ball in play. If they think their original ball is fine and don't hit a provisional, they have never gone back to the tee. Just blob the hole and move on to the next.

Also mentioned by some is giving gimmes. This makes no significant difference at all, as it doesn't take long to tap in a putt from a few inches.

I must admit, I enjoy social rounds more now that I submit a card. Feels like it is actually worthwhile. Was easy to pretty much lose interest in the round when it meant nothing and I was playing badly. Now I always have an interest in what my new differential will be, which one I will lose, and how it will impact handicap. Even if I go through a very bad spell, it is interesting to see how much my handicap will increase when the good scores start dropping off, and then that possibly gives my more motivation to get it back down. Every round is a personal competition with myself that has a record and an outcome.

 

[D-S]

Maybe it is just the culture of the people I play with at my old and new club. All of them are regular competition players, so it is instinct to play to the rules. Hit an awful shot, they hit a provisional. It doesn't take long, and perhaps they spend less time looking for their original if they know they have another ball in play. If they think their original ball is fine and don't hit a provisional, they have never gone back to the tee. Just blob the hole and move on to the next.

Also mentioned by some is giving gimmes. This makes no significant difference at all, as it doesn't take long to tap in a putt from a few inches.

I must admit, I enjoy social rounds more now that I submit a card. Feels like it is actually worthwhile. Was easy to pretty much lose interest in the round when it meant nothing and I was playing badly. Now I always have an interest in what my new differential will be, which one I will lose, and how it will impact handicap. Even if I go through a very bad spell, it is interesting to see how much my handicap will increase when the good scores start dropping off, and then that possibly gives my more motivation to get it back down. Every round is a personal competition with myself that has a record and an outcome.

So in your casual rounds you never play matchplay? You never play better ball? You never play any sort of team format, 2 out of 3 or 4 for example? All formats where you often do not have to finish the hole or pick up somewhere on the green when for example your opponents have won the hole or your partner has won the hole before your finish or the team has two scores better than you can achieve etc. etc. All of which speed up 4 ball play as all players do not need to putt out.
Of course, I realise that if you have already had a nett double bogey, when submitting a card, you should pick up.
To my mind if when playing these formats and nevertheless you are going to in effect just play for your own score, you are not playing them right. If everyone is just playing for themselves then you might as well, in casual rounds, just have a singles Stableford as the format and this, to my mind, would be really boring.

 

[Swango1980]

So in your casual rounds you never play matchplay? You never play better ball? You never play any sort of team format, 2 out of 3 or 4 for example? All formats where you often do not have to finish the hole or pick up somewhere on the green when for example your opponents have won the hole or your partner has won the hole before your finish or the team has two scores better than you can achieve etc. etc. All of which speed up 4 ball play as all players do not need to putt out.
Of course, I realise that if you have already had a nett double bogey, when submitting a card, you should pick up.
To my mind if when playing these formats and nevertheless you are going to in effect just play for your own score, you are not playing them right. If everyone is just playing for themselves then you might as well, in casual rounds, just have a singles Stableford as the format and this, to my mind, would be really boring.

In social play, we certainly never play better ball such as best 2 out of 4. That is reserved to Opens when you actually have other teams to play against.

We will have fourball match play at times, we simply don't play gimmes. Stroke play rules. As I said in an earlier post, there is a weekend group that play individual Stableford, fourball matchplay and other side bets, all for a lot of cash. And they fly round.

 

[Backache]

I must admit, I enjoy social rounds more now that I submit a card. Feels like it is actually worthwhile. Was easy to pretty much lose interest in the round when it meant nothing and I was playing badly. Now I always have an interest in what my new differential will be, which one I will lose, and how it will impact handicap. Even if I go through a very bad spell, it is interesting to see how much my handicap will increase when the good scores start dropping off, and then that possibly gives my more motivation to get it back down. Every round is a personal competition with myself that has a record and an outcome.

I am genuinely glad that putting in cards adds to your enjoyment of your social golf.
I think the opportunity to put these rounds on is a good thing.
What I disagree with is the idea that there should be a moral obligation to put them in.
It would detract from my enjoyment of social golf, where generally I play mat h play or I mess around with little regard to the score.
I believe my competition scores are reasonably representative for handicap purposes.
If clubs/competitions/national associations thing a certain number of cards need to be put in to be representative, I would be happy to comply with that number or not compete if it's impractical but I am not going to change my social golf for some spurious moral obligation.

 

[Swango1980]

I am genuinely glad that putting in cards adds to your enjoyment of your social golf.
I think the opportunity to put these rounds on is a good thing.
What I disagree with is the idea that there should be a moral obligation to put them in.
It would detract from my enjoyment of social golf, where generally I play mat h play or I mess around with little regard to the score.
I believe my competition scores are reasonably representative for handicap purposes.
If clubs/competitions/national associations thing a certain number of cards need to be put in to be representative, I would be happy to comply with that number or not compete if it's impractical but I am not going to change my social golf for some spurious moral obligation.

I also agree there should be no obligation, which there isn't.

However, the thread appeared to be a platform for some to provide excuses NOT to submit a score. Some of these are fair enough, for example if it was a genuine training round where you are trying different things. Like a fader trying to work on their draw, etc. But a lot of other reasons seemed a bit silly. My favourite is still the "I'd have to find a pencil". Even that isn't technically true, as you can enter the scores directly into your MyEG App hole by hole, and as you do it checks your score, and the score entered for you by your marker match up (otherwise it gives a warning to check) and it works out your current Stableford points.

So, maybe it is best for people to stop worrying about it. Go out and play golf as you please, for handicap or not. If you play in competitions, try and make sure your handicap is as reflective as can be, for your own sake.

 

[Backache]

Apps are even worse than pencils, I have to fish around for glasses , dig the phone in and out at every hole.
Time consuming nightmare.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

We
We started at 5pm, finished just after 7. Course yardage off yellows is 6045 yards off yellows.

Admittedly, it was monumentally quicker than usual. Didn't feel quick, but we were all naturally quick golfers, play ready golf and no one got in any trouble requiring searching for balls. Most 4 ball rounds would normally be between 3-4 hours, and over 4 if it is a very slow round, with slow groups in front.

Point is, submitting our scores did not delay the round at all. There is a group at club that play every weekend, for lots of money (minimum £20 per head, but could be more based on side pots). They play single Stableford for main pot, match play within their groups for another pot, side pots per hole and submit cards for handicap. They still fly round the course, well under 4 hours. This is a course, btw, with large mature tree lined fairways and areas of gorse.

So, I think that if people are trying to use the "rounds take too long if players are wanting to submit a score" excuse, they seriously need to think again. If a four ball is very slow, it won't be because they are submitting scores, there will be other reasons for it. Like, they are just slow.

Whatever! . For me, the question is not how long or otherwise. It is simply that most times I play a non competitive round, I don't play to full rules of golf.
I ( we) are more relaxed than that.It is more enjoyable etc. And so, by definition, we cannot submit cards.
It is getting to the point with some on here that they are demanding others do it their way, I.e that they must play to full rules etc etc.
I play golf for fun and occasionally that involves competition. Even then, it is more for the game, company, than for the win.
But I won't have being told I have to go on to the course and play full rules most times I play.
I don't tell other people how they should play their game,( except in competitions )

 

[Swango1980]

Apps are even worse than pencils, I have to fish around for glasses , dig the phone in and out at every hole.
Time consuming nightmare.

Really, I guess some of us are better than others at using them efficiently (and have the visual capabilities). My phone remains in top pocket of bag, App permanently open. Finish hole, go to bag (which I have to anyway), lift phone out, plug in 2-4 scores (depending on group size), hit next hole, put phone in bag, move on. Takes no longer than using a scorecard and pencil, nor do I need to waste any time after 9 or 18 adding the scores up and checking if they are all OK and how we are all doing.

 

[Swango1980]

Whatever! . For me, the question is not how long or otherwise. It is simply that most times I play a non competitive round, I don't play to full rules of golf.
I ( we) are more relaxed than that.It is more enjoyable etc. And so, by definition, we cannot submit cards.
It is getting to the point with some on here that they are demanding others do it their way, I.e that they must play to full rules etc etc.
I play golf for fun and occasionally that involves competition. Even then, it is more for the game, company, than for the win.
But I won't have being told I have to go on to the course and play full rules most times I play.
I don't tell other people how they should play their game,( except in competitions )

Individual choice. When our group submit our scores, we are definitely not doing it at the expense of enjoyment. I guess some people are too highly strung when they feel they are playing to any sort of rules, and stress themselves out about it. So fair enough, if it is more enjoyable for them to just go out and whack a ball about with no real restrictions, then by all means do that.

Key thing is, I don't believe anybody is telling anybody they MUST submit a score from social golf. Some have their own opinions on what they would like to do, but the rules of handicapping make no requirement that all rounds must be submitted, which is what matters. The only debatable area is where they suggest regular organised rounds should be submitted, which can be open to interpretation and can horrify a group of buddies that play regularly on a Sunday morning (or whatever other day) and suddenly feel like they are being instructed to submit cards.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

I still don't get it. Every round I have played, for handicap or not, has always been played by the rules of golf. I must have played with hundreds of golfers and the same has been true for all. Since we've started to submit scores for handicap, there has been no noticeable increase to round length.

I don't know who all these people are that don't play to the rules of golf when playing with their mates? Maybe there are a few who don't play a provisional and just drop one down. Maybe there are a few who quit playing halfway through a hole if their partner is in control? If that is the case, they are welcome to continue to do so. However, I would say the vast majority do actually play a round of golf to the point they can genuinely count up a score afterwards, whether than be Stableford, nett or gross. And can confidently claim that score was achieved fairly. Whether they submit that for handicap or not will make no difference to round length

Maybe that's it. You say you don't get it. Fair enough, but my experience is completely opposite. Sometimes you wonder if one or two play to full rules in competitions ??
It could be that youngish, low handicappers ( who stay on piste almost always) play full rules all the time. And other (usually older high cappers ) who go walkabout more. Two distinct groups? where the latter are tempted to slacken off the rules because it's faffing about otherwise?
I have played as a Senior, exclusively in the latter for almost 20 years, and I have never played in a non competition round where the full rules have been played. Because it was known they needn't be, so everyone was more relaxed about "getting on with it"
It's classic.."..Are you going to play a provisional? No, if I don't find it, I'll just drop one."
In fact, that scenario was recognised as quite common , in the new amended rules ( not adopted by most Clubs)
Whichever, neither is wrong. What I find worrying is this pressure to submit General cards, as some are asking.
If someone is going to cheat, their putting in such cards regularly isn't going to stop them.
I don't put in such cards. I came in one day with 45 points ( either side I was in the high twenties).Just one of those days! I was cut quite heavily - and quite rightly. What was wrong with that?

 

[Bratty]

I came in one day with 45 points ( either side I was in the high twenties).Just one of those days! I was cut quite heavily - and quite rightly. What was wrong with that?

Nothing at all. Unless you've been playing every day and having lessons and shooting the lights out in bounce games leading up to the comp for a month or two and are deliberately avoiding putting a card in to keep your handicap high.
I feel it's just about honesty; not being forced to put a card in, but being forced by ones moral compass to do so if it's obvious one's playing far better than handicap regularly.

 

[Bdill93]

Maybe that's it. You say you don't get it. Fair enough, but my experience is completely opposite. Sometimes you wonder if one or two play to full rules in competitions ??
It could be that youngish, low handicappers ( who stay on piste almost always) play full rules all the time. And other (usually older high cappers ) who go walkabout more. Two distinct groups? where the latter are tempted to slacken off the rules because it's faffing about otherwise?
I have played as a Senior, exclusively in the latter for almost 20 years, and I have never played in a non competition round where the full rules have been played. Because it was known they needn't be, so everyone was more relaxed about "getting on with it"
It's classic.."..Are you going to play a provisional? No, if I don't find it, I'll just drop one."
In fact, that scenario was recognised as quite common , in the new amended rules ( not adopted by most Clubs)
Whichever, neither is wrong. What I find worrying is this pressure to submit General cards, as some are asking.
If someone is going to cheat, their putting in such cards regularly isn't going to stop them.
I don't put in such cards. I came in one day with 45 points ( either side I was in the high twenties).Just one of those days! I was cut quite heavily - and quite rightly. What was wrong with that?

Genuine question - Do you and your PP's have a winner on the day etc, even if no money changes hands etc? If so - are you excluded if you dropped one in from an OOB? Like how is that managed? Or does no one tot up scores at the end? You just all go out and whack it around for 4 hours then leave never knowing the scores?

Just find it hard to grasp not knowing what my score would be, even if I play by myself Id play provvies if needed But then I am trying to get my handicap down...

 

[Swango1980]

Maybe that's it. You say you don't get it. Fair enough, but my experience is completely opposite. Sometimes you wonder if one or two play to full rules in competitions ??
It could be that youngish, low handicappers ( who stay on piste almost always) play full rules all the time. And other (usually older high cappers ) who go walkabout more. Two distinct groups? where the latter are tempted to slacken off the rules because it's faffing about otherwise?
I have played as a Senior, exclusively in the latter for almost 20 years, and I have never played in a non competition round where the full rules have been played. Because it was known they needn't be, so everyone was more relaxed about "getting on with it"
It's classic.."..Are you going to play a provisional? No, if I don't find it, I'll just drop one."
In fact, that scenario was recognised as quite common , in the new amended rules ( not adopted by most Clubs)
Whichever, neither is wrong. What I find worrying is this pressure to submit General cards, as some are asking.
If someone is going to cheat, their putting in such cards regularly isn't going to stop them.
I don't put in such cards. I came in one day with 45 points ( either side I was in the high twenties).Just one of those days! I was cut quite heavily - and quite rightly. What was wrong with that?

How were you cut, if you don't submit the card? Or was the 45 points in a competition?

 

[Orikoru]

Nothing at all. Unless you've been playing every day and having lessons and shooting the lights out in bounce games leading up to the comp for a month or two and are deliberately avoiding putting a card in to keep your handicap high.
I feel it's just about honesty; not being forced to put a card in, but being forced by ones moral compass to do so if it's obvious one's playing far better than handicap regularly.

Thing is, I feel like my handicap is too high, but whenever I have put a general play card in recently, it turns out I was wrong.

 

[Bratty]

Thing is, I feel like my handicap is too high, but whenever I have put a general play card in recently, it turns out I was wrong.

Where the hell is that LOL button!! ?

 

[Swango1980]

Thing is, I feel like my handicap is too high, but whenever I have put a general play card in recently, it turns out I was wrong.

That's the old excuse I hear from high handicappers all the time. They complain that their handicap is too high, yet refuse to register for a score because "they don't want it to go up further". They then often go out and shoot 40+ points and say afterwards "I should have submitted my score". Hmmm, yes, of course you should have done. I think people are under the false perception that if they want to get a handicap cut, every round they submit has to be a good round, which is clearly rubbish.

Either that, or they are just lying, and they really don't want to get a cut because they won't score as well in the next competition. Played a few social rounds with one guy recently, and he at least admitted he would not hand in cards as he had a competition the next week, and didn't want a cut. He has actually won his last 2 competitions, with field sized of about 100 players.