Stroke Index Explained

[Slab]

Many courses have tee markers on it though - just because you dont look at them doesn mean the other thousands of golfers dont

Adding in two separate SI for holes depending on the format just confuses an already complicated matter - keep it a simple as possible - no need to complicate matters further by adding a second scorecard for Stableford only

We trust these folk to play to & understand the rules of golf, surely two numbers arent going to send them into spasms of confusion

Anyway what idiotic Course manage ordered tee markers that he could never 'edit' ... say if the hole length/layout was ever changed or had the par re-rated or any number of other things
Surely no club committee ordered 18+ terracotta warriors with Par, length, SI & hole number stamped into their chests

Getting slightly off the point though, I dont think cost is really the reason for not having a difficulty rating

 

[Foxholer]

The problem is that a significant number of courses its not a myth.
Many, many clubs have based SI solely on difficulty - fine for Stableford but not ideal in Matchplay where shots are given at the most difficult holes as in the GM piece.
SI 1 and 2 at our place are the most difficult holes. Tricky pars even for a low single but a relatively straight forward bogey. Even if I'm playing a 9 handicapper I need to par those holes for a half assuming the oppo makes a bogey....

One of the reasons I hate Matchplay...

But, as Rosecott posted, what you lose on that hole, you should gain on another. If the course and ratings are balanced, then it should be 'fair'. Some courses, for example those with tough last few holes, do not lend themselves to being great Matchplay courses.

 

[Fyldewhite]

Are you saying handicaps are wrong because of that?

Should high handicappers (who are more likely to have the 10s etc) be even higher?

Er no.......I just thought golf was about getting the damned thing in the hole in the fewest shots but it's actually all about the handicap system....my mistake.

 

[Foxholer]

Er no.......I just thought golf was about getting the damned thing in the hole in the fewest shots but it's actually all about the handicap system....my mistake.

So you only play Scratch competitions/matches then?

And yes, SI (the topic of this thread) is only relevant where there is a handicap!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

We trust these folk to play to & understand the rules of golf, surely two numbers arent going to send them into spasms of confusion

Anyway what idiotic Course manage ordered tee markers that he could never 'edit' ... say if the hole length/layout was ever changed or had the par re-rated or any number of other things
Surely no club committee ordered 18+ terracotta warriors with Par, length, SI & hole number stamped into their chests

Getting slightly off the point though, I dont think cost is really the reason for not having a difficulty rating

Plenty of courses order signs that dont change - that doesnt make them "idiotic"


People struggle enough with SI rigth now without adding in more issues to the pot

There is no reason to change something just for Stableford - the SI will all level itself out - if there is a high index on a tough hole there will be a low index on a less than tough hole out there

The Stroke Index is for the second main format of golf - Matchplay with the main format being strokeplay (medal format ) having nothing to do with SI.

 

[Slab]

Plenty of courses order signs that dont change - that doesnt make them "idiotic"


People struggle enough with SI rigth now without adding in more issues to the pot

There is no reason to change something just for Stableford - the SI will all level itself out - if there is a high index on a tough hole there will be a low index on a less than tough hole out there

The Stroke Index is for the second main format of golf - Matchplay with the main format being strokeplay (medal format ) having nothing to do with SI.

But your happy cost isn't the issue now, that's good

I'm not that precious about how they do it I just wanted to understand it more and I didn't think the feature did that so in the absence of a better explanation of why it is what it is I offered an opinion supporting two index ratings & notwithstanding your reservations it really isn't rocket science

I did find this on England golf:

Rule of Golf 33-4 requires Committees to “publish a table indicating the order of holes at which handicap strokes are to be given or received”. To provide consistency at Affiliated Clubs it is strongly recommended that Appendix G of the CONGU UHS is followed.

Clubs and members alike should be aware that Stroke Index is not determined on hole difficulty but on ensuring an equal distribution of strokes is given/received in a match play competition.

Below is an outline of Appendix G.

Of paramount importance for match play competition is the even spread of the strokes to be received at all handicap differences over the 18 holes.

This is best achieved by allocating the odd numbered strokes to the more difficult of the two nines, usually the longer nine, and the even numbers to the other nine.

The first and second stroke index holes should be placed close to the centre of each nine and the first six strokes should not be allocated to adjacent holes. The 7th to the 10th indices should be allocated so that a player receiving 10 strokes does not receive strokes on three consecutive holes.

None of the first eight strokes should be allocated to the first or the last hole, and at clubs where competitive matches may be started at the 10th hole, at the 9th or 10th holes. This avoids a player receiving an undue advantage on the 19th hole should a match continue to sudden death. Unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, stroke indices 9, 10, 11 and 12 should be allocated to holes 1, 9, 10 and 18 in such order as shall be considered appropriate.

Subject to the foregoing recommendations, when selecting each stroke index in turn holes of varying length should be selected. Index 1 could be a Par 5, index 2 a long Par 4, index 3 a shorter Par 4 and index 4 a Par 3. There is no recommended order for this selection, the objective being to select in index sequence holes of varying playing difficulty. Such a selection provides more equal opportunity for all handicaps in match play and Stableford and Par competitions than an order based upon hole length or difficulty to obtain Par.



The above reinforces the methodology for prioritising matchplay when setting SI's (reminded me of a champions league draw where so many variables are added to the pot) such that there is very little notable scope for hole difficulty to be a meaningful factor at all but I think in handicap strokeplay (whatever scoring method is used) hole difficulty is possibly more important to the player than is currently considered

 

[Deleted member 15344]

But your happy cost isn't the issue now, that's good

when did i say cost wasnt an issue - it will be an issue but not the sole one - multiple issues with adding a second set of SI just for stableford

I'm not that precious about how they do it I just wanted to understand it more and I didn't think the feature did that so in the absence of a better explanation of why it is what it is I offered an opinion supporting two index ratings & notwithstanding your reservations it isn't rocket science

I did find this on England golf:

Rule of Golf 33-4 requires Committees to “publish a table indicating the order of holes at which handicap strokes are to be given or received”. To provide consistency at Affiliated Clubs it is strongly recommended that Appendix G of the CONGU UHS is followed.

Clubs and members alike should be aware that Stroke Index is not determined on hole difficulty but on ensuring an equal distribution of strokes is given/received in a match play competition.

Below is an outline of Appendix G.

Of paramount importance for match play competition is the even spread of the strokes to be received at all handicap differences over the 18 holes.

This is best achieved by allocating the odd numbered strokes to the more difficult of the two nines, usually the longer nine, and the even numbers to the other nine.

The first and second stroke index holes should be placed close to the centre of each nine and the first six strokes should not be allocated to adjacent holes. The 7th to the 10th indices should be allocated so that a player receiving 10 strokes does not receive strokes on three consecutive holes.

None of the first eight strokes should be allocated to the first or the last hole, and at clubs where competitive matches may be started at the 10th hole, at the 9th or 10th holes. This avoids a player receiving an undue advantage on the 19th hole should a match continue to sudden death. Unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, stroke indices 9, 10, 11 and 12 should be allocated to holes 1, 9, 10 and 18 in such order as shall be considered appropriate.

Subject to the foregoing recommendations, when selecting each stroke index in turn holes of varying length should be selected. Index 1 could be a Par 5, index 2 a long Par 4, index 3 a shorter Par 4 and index 4 a Par 3. There is no recommended order for this selection, the objective being to select in index sequence holes of varying playing difficulty. Such a selection provides more equal opportunity for all handicaps in match play and Stableford and Par competitions than an order based upon hole length or difficulty to obtain Par.

The above reinforces the methodology for prioritising matchplay when setting SI's (reminded me of a champions league draw where so many variables are added to the pot) such that there is very little notable scope for hole difficulty to be a meaningful factor at all but I think in handicap strokeplay (whatever scoring method is used) it is more possibly important to the player than England golf is currently considering

I know how the SI after having done research over the last couple of months - the feature i thought gave a perfectly good explanation without going too in depth about it

SI is for Matchplay purposes - it has been looked at a few times over the times and generally courses are set up for the harder holes in the middle and thats where the lower SI are normally also. I havent seen many issues in regards the SI set up on any course i have played over here nor heard many discuss the issue to it be a problem to worry about.

 

[Slab]

when did i say cost wasnt an issue - it will be an issue but not the sole one - multiple issues with adding a second set of SI just for stableford



I know how the SI after having done research over the last couple of months - the feature i thought gave a perfectly good explanation without going too in depth about it

SI is for Matchplay purposes - it has been looked at a few times over the times and generally courses are set up for the harder holes in the middle and thats where the lower SI are normally also. I havent seen many issues in regards the SI set up on any course i have played over here nor heard many discuss the issue to it be a problem to worry about.

You really havnt heard the cry 'how on earth is that hole SI x' a c'mon now!

SI is certainly designed for matchplay but its extensively used for handicap shots for the more popular strokeplay format & I'm not sure that the courses I've played were designed to fit in with the SI guidelines



Although its just clicked that in your shoes I might be quite chipper to find out i'm in a playoff with someone twice my handicap and I stand on 18th tee knowing it has a 'protected SI rating' of 12 when it may actually have a difficulty rating of say SI 7!
(def posted in jest)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You really havnt heard the cry 'how on earth is that hole SI x' a c'mon now!

SI is certainly designed for matchplay but its extensively used for handicap shots for the more popular strokeplay format & I'm not sure that the courses I've played were designed to fit in with the SI guidelines



Although its just clicked that in your shoes I might be quite chipper to find out i'm in a playoff with someone twice my handicap and I stand on 18th tee knowing it has a 'protected SI rating' of 12 when it may actually have a difficulty rating of say SI 7!
(def posted in jest)

No i havent really heard that at all

Again its used for HC on stableford but again not really a major issue

I bet if most clubs did a run off for the average scores for their course it wont be far from the SI anyway. I did it at ours and it fitted just about right for the new SI - both ladies and mens.

 

[Foxholer]

Unless there are compelling reasons to the contrary, stroke indices 9, 10, 11 and 12 should be allocated to holes 1, 9, 10 and 18 in such order as shall be considered appropriate.

That appears to be an update on the guidelines I remember - which recommended that holes 1,9, 10 and 18 were not allocated a SI below 9.

 

[rosecott]

You really havnt heard the cry 'how on earth is that hole SI x' a c'mon now!

I've certainly heard it, but it takes much less than a minute to explain it to anyone with an open mind.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I've certainly heard it, but it takes much less than a minute to explain it to anyone with an open mind.

Definitely heard it both at my home course and from playing partners when we've been away. It is what it is. You hit the ball, make a score and move on.