sjw
Well-known member
It is downhill though, which takes a bit off
Stroke Index 18
- Thread starter chico
- Start date
Ye Olde Boomer
Well-known member
I do have a question about assigning stroke index numbers to holes.
Most courses in America put all of the odd number stroke designation holes on the first nine
and all of the even number stroke designation holes on the second none.
This means that the stroke designations are not EXACTLY assigned by the relative difficulty of the holes,
but rather by their relative difficulty on their own half of the course.
As we know, the vast majority of American courses are built as two nine hole courses with a front nine and a back nine.
The legendary UK links courses, in contrast, are built with nine holes going out and nine holes coming back in.
In this case, are the stroke holes still odd numbers on the first nine and even numbers on the second nine,
or are they strictly by relative difficulty regardless of order or location?
Most courses in America put all of the odd number stroke designation holes on the first nine
and all of the even number stroke designation holes on the second none.
This means that the stroke designations are not EXACTLY assigned by the relative difficulty of the holes,
but rather by their relative difficulty on their own half of the course.
As we know, the vast majority of American courses are built as two nine hole courses with a front nine and a back nine.
The legendary UK links courses, in contrast, are built with nine holes going out and nine holes coming back in.
In this case, are the stroke holes still odd numbers on the first nine and even numbers on the second nine,
or are they strictly by relative difficulty regardless of order or location?
sjw
Well-known member
As far as I can remember, every course I've played has been split odd and even. We can have courses rated for 9 holes as well so I don't know if it's something to do with that
Orikoru
Tour Winner
From what I've seen it's mostly done broadly on hole difficulty, but with some changes made to fit certain criteria, for example not having stroke 1 on the first or last hole. And as mentioned above, having all the odd numbers on one nine and even numbers the other nine, so that shots in match are spread evenly over front and back nines. So your hardest hole if it's not SI 1 will still likely be SI 2-6 or so. And "hardest hole" is obviously subjective anyway.
rulie
Head Pro
odds on the "out" nine, evens on the "in" nine
rosecott
Money List Winner
Ours are the other way round as the back 9 is significantly longer and more "difficult".
Orikoru
Tour Winner
My course has even SIs on the front nine. Oddly enough, off the reds it's the other way round.
D
Deleted member 25575
Guest
One of my courses has odds out even in and the other even out, odd in
Boabie
New member
The stroke index was introduced to ensure an even distribution of shots in Match Play. This Index was designed that by dividing front and back 9's and whichever 9 was the most difficult was given the odd numbered index the other given the evens. There after no mention of difficulty in Match Play. This was done so as to allow starting from the 1st or 10th and in match play there should be no other starting points otherwise the even distribution of shots no longer applies. Once the odd and even halves were decided certain indexes were not allowed to be used on holes 1,9,10 & 18 so that in the event of a match going to extra holes or a play off this would minimise the advantage of someone receiving a stroke.
Why the R & A does not make the stroke index part of the rules I do not understand but it was designed for match play long before Stableford or other formats decided to use it.
If however you have played a course who allocate strokes on degree of difficulty then marking is significantly more difficult and may result in the match being over before a player has received some of their shots. Degree of difficulty is also something that will be affected by weather conditions, ability of participants and even time of day.
Why the R & A does not make the stroke index part of the rules I do not understand but it was designed for match play long before Stableford or other formats decided to use it.
If however you have played a course who allocate strokes on degree of difficulty then marking is significantly more difficult and may result in the match being over before a player has received some of their shots. Degree of difficulty is also something that will be affected by weather conditions, ability of participants and even time of day.
Orikoru
Tour Winner
There is always correlation between stroke index and difficulty though. Granted it's not wholly based on that but you can't ignore the fact that SI 1 is always a long or otherwise difficult hole, as are 2, 3 and/or 4 usually. SI 17 & 18 are nearly always short-ish holes, be it a wedge-length par 3 or a short par 5 as stated in this OP. To simply say 'SI is not based on difficulty' is disingenuous in my opinion.
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The stroke index was always part of the CONGU rules long before the WHS and not the R&A as it is part of handicapping and not the playing of the game.
Having played for over 45 years it was only changed to suit match play about 20 years ago at that time it was also recommended that clubs have two cards with different S.Is - one for match play and one for stableford.
I would add that as a club where the vast majority of golf played in swindles and club comps is stableford it is preferred to have SIs on difficulty, although personally I would prefer to see the 2 card system.
JonnyGutteridge
Newbie
I’ve commented before on stroke index, possibly in this thread, using the 9th at Woking as an example of a hole where the SI doesn’t make sense for stroke play, but does make sense for matchplay.
It’s a 470 yard very uphill, dog leg left par 4. I hit a solid drive and a very solid 3 wood into the green… It’s Stroke Index 9! Despite being the longest par 4 on the course by about 20 yards.
It’s a 470 yard very uphill, dog leg left par 4. I hit a solid drive and a very solid 3 wood into the green… It’s Stroke Index 9! Despite being the longest par 4 on the course by about 20 yards.
rosecott
Money List Winner
That begs the question - how were the differences in handicaps in matchplay dealt with before then?
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
The difference was the same but it was not full handicap for singles match I seem to remember but even that I think was before the change to the SI recommendations. A player in singles got three quarters of their handicap and the difference was then worked out.
From and old chart I have
A few things were changed when that happened
It used to be 7/8ths of handicap for singles stableford.
3/8ths in foursome match
7/16th in Stableford foursome
sunshine
Well-known member
Exactly!
Most of my golf is stableford / medal, and I never think about SI. I don't understand why it matters.
When playing matchplay I need a card to remind myself of the SI's, I've been a member 10 years and only have a vague notion of each hole's SI.
sunshine
Well-known member
What's the point in having SIs for stableford?
36 points = nett par. It doesn't matter how the shots are allocated (although I imagine it makes sense to spread the shots out across the 18 holes).
Alan Clifford
Well-known member
Our first three holes are 16, 18, 14. I thought it wasn't supposed to be done like that but these three should be spread out.
D-S
Well-known member
If you v’e got a 6ft cross hill downhill putt and it is for two points (dependent on the SI of the hole) then you may well play it differently than if it is for one point. If you don’t know where you get shots then course strategy will be different.
wjemather
Well-known member
There isn't one if your Playing Handicap is 0.
For everyone else, they need to know when they can no longer score a point so they can pick up and move on to the next hole.
They might also want to know when it's their final stroke to score one point, so they can smash the ball 10 feet past the hole instead of leaving it just short.
Backache
Assistant Pro
My reading of the post was does it matter where they are for Stableford? Obviously you have to find out where they are if you want to know whether or not to pick up, personally I just assume I get a stroke at most holes and pick up once I have reached double bogey on the rare occasions I play stableford.
