SaintHacker
Journeyman Pro
http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/features/the-game/stroke-index-65266
Nice one GM, makes a bit more sense now:thup:
Nice one GM, makes a bit more sense now:thup:
Stroke Index Explained
- Thread starter SaintHacker
- Start date
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
We have just changed a few of our strike indexes and had to explain this to a number of members
The ladies was changed as well and they want the last to be SI 1 - it took a while tk explain it to them why it couldnt be when the response from them was always "but it's the hardest so we want it as stroke Idex one "
The ladies was changed as well and they want the last to be SI 1 - it took a while tk explain it to them why it couldnt be when the response from them was always "but it's the hardest so we want it as stroke Idex one "
HomerJSimpson
Hall of Famer
Good feature. Nice spot
richart
Major Champion
Royal North Devon has the 18th as stroke 18. One of the toughest holes on the course.
That sort of makes sense then. I have played a few courses where you play a hole with a low stroke index and the hole has seemed much easier than the previous hole with a higher index. I don't think I particularly agree with it, I like a difficulty index, particularly on a course I don't know, but frankly they are not going to change the system to suit me.
Foxholer
Blackballed
Did you not consider the '2 SI' method? That would satisfy both the Matchplay SI that Congu opt for and the Stableford 'hardest hole' that your Ladies are wanting!
As there is far more Stableford (or equivalent) played than Matchplay, I'm actually in favour of simply using the 'hardest hole' approach that your Ladies prefer! Wentworth actually applied that approach 18 months after Els's changes. It only marginally breaches (what I remember as) the Matchplay recommendations (1 hole - 9) which it did (more so) before the changes anyway!
The Shire (rated for Stableford as your Ladies want) breaches the recommendations on 3 out of the 4 'targeted' holes, but is more realistic imo. It just means that the higher capper needs to hang in to get to play the 18th with an even chance to win it. Were it to be rated as per the recommendations, it would the low-capper that had to hang in, with more of an expectation of winning the last.
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davemc1
Journeyman Pro
That's cleared that up then 
:thup:
:thup:
oworsel
Hacker
Being a high handicapper ive often wondered about how its worked out. As big scores can be had on fairly straightforward holes in stableford.
rosecott
Money List Winner
By and large, for the majority of 18-and-below handicappers, what you lose on one hole you gain on another. If you score at least one stableford point on each hole, perceived "incorrect" SIs won't affect your score.
Evesdad
Tour Winner
Ours changed 18 months ago as they didn't meet the congu recommendations. I had an email last week to say they are changing again!
Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
Interesting feature but not sure if it really gives any explanation of how a SI is allocated & is more about the reason/excuse why its not a difficulty rating... in short, protection for any unfair advantage in Match play format
So it does need to be fair for that format but strange that this format is the driver for the entire system and I gather matchplay is very much in the minority so I don't really see an issue in having a SI difficulty rating for strokeplay as the primary which is then adjusted for matchplay
Anyway it cant be that difficult to have scorecards for each format, surely
So it does need to be fair for that format but strange that this format is the driver for the entire system and I gather matchplay is very much in the minority so I don't really see an issue in having a SI difficulty rating for strokeplay as the primary which is then adjusted for matchplay
Anyway it cant be that difficult to have scorecards for each format, surely
BTatHome
Tour Winner
Difficult? No.
Expensive and possibly confusing to some? Yes
Two sets of scorecards printed and available in the pro shops all the time, tee/hole markers all updated to show two sets of SI? How about someone picking up the wrong score card in a comp and nobody noticing? Of course having one card with both sets can overcome some of this. Let's be honest though, most courses are simply not going to bother with extra expense ... unless they have to change, and then it makes sense to make the change.
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
This ^^^^^
Makes very little difference most of the time. A bit like countback, there has to be a method, and whichever is adopted some won't agree. The only problem is that 99% of new golfers are told SI 1 is the "hardest hole" and the myth is perpetuated. Stableford isn't real golf anyway
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Well strokplay is normally gross with your HC taken off at the end - so SI doesnt really have an effect
SI will have an effect for Stableford and Matchplay comps - not sure they are in the minority with many Amatuer champs being decided by Matchplay.
Normally Courses are set up with a gentle start with the difficulty increase to the middle holes on both nines.
Having two sets of Cards would also need two sets of Tee markers etc etc - starts getting a little bit expensive
Foxholer
Blackballed
...Stableford isn't real golf anyway
It's merely the way handicaps are calculated!
And, effectively, how matches are played.
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Slab
Occasional Tour Caddy
I did think of cost initially but decided it wasn't really a driving factor as printing 5,000 scorecards is 5,000 scorecards just with two variants so not really a cost there and any number of colour coding/naming options to cut out errors
(might be different costs if you had 20 variants though)
Tee and hole markers are nice things but other than the hole number its not really an integral part of the SI system and can be replaced/updated over time, after all who with a card in hand looks at the tee marker for the SI (and i've seen them differ so I'd use the scorecard anyway)
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
It's merely the way handicaps are calculated!
And, effectively, how matches are played.
Oh, and a 10 counts as a 6 .....proper test.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Many courses have tee markers on it though - just because you dont look at them doesn mean the other thousands of golfers dont
Adding in two separate SI for holes depending on the format just confuses an already complicated matter - keep it a simple as possible - no need to complicate matters further by adding a second scorecard for Stableford only
Foxholer
Blackballed
Are you saying handicaps are wrong because of that?
Should high handicappers (who are more likely to have the 10s etc) be even higher?
Remember this thread is about SIs and where different handicaps should get shots in matches, not about Medal Strokeplay comps where SI is irrelevant!
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Imurg
The Grinder Of Pars (Semi Crocked)
The problem is that a significant number of courses its not a myth.
Many, many clubs have based SI solely on difficulty - fine for Stableford but not ideal in Matchplay where shots are given at the most difficult holes as in the GM piece.
SI 1 and 2 at our place are the most difficult holes. Tricky pars even for a low single but a relatively straight forward bogey. Even if I'm playing a 9 handicapper I need to par those holes for a half assuming the oppo makes a bogey....
One of the reasons I hate Matchplay...
