Stack and tilt: let's have a heated debate

[One Planer]

Keep the hands moving forwards so the clubhead doesn't pass the hands until late in the upswing, if at all.... if your rotation stops the clubhead will flip shut and you'll hit low hooks.

If you watch the vid at precisely 1.02 you can see the clubhead still hasn't passed his hands, the left wrist remains flat and the right wrist still has some of it's 'lag angle', it hasn't rolled or crossed over the left at all.

Thanks James, again that's helpful to know.

I'll keep at it until I feel it becomes natural.

 

[shewy]

I'll be first to admit I'm way to lazy to read all this thread but it does interest me.
Basically I'm left handed but play right handed,I'm also left footed and struggle with weight transfer.
My shots are a very high trajectory and I'm pretty sure it's due to flicky wrists..
I'm pretty sure I'm leaving a lot of distance out there as well,my 7i only goes 140yards..
Would this swing suit me being so left sided?
Are there any teachers in South Wales which teach this? Just to satisfy my curiosity

 

[GuitarRich]

It's like I said to Slime. When your back feels up to it, get yourself out on the course and see how you go. What's the absolute worse that could happen?

I hear ya - will be on the course as soon as I can get enough time! Back is fine now, just not had time to get out on the course. Hope to be joining a club soon so I'll be able to play more often. Jobs killing me right now - can't wait for the lighter evenings.

 

[One Planer]

I'll be first to admit I'm way to lazy to read all this thread but it does interest me.
Basically I'm left handed but play right handed,I'm also left footed and struggle with weight transfer.
My shots are a very high trajectory and I'm pretty sure it's due to flicky wrists..
I'm pretty sure I'm leaving a lot of distance out there as well,my 7i only goes 140yards..
Would this swing suit me being so left sided?
Are there any teachers in South Wales which teach this? Just to satisfy my curiosity

I "think" this was covered earlier in the thread but not sure where abouts

As for teachers, they are very few and far between I'm afraid. Again, I think a list was posted of them somewhere on the thread.

 

[Monty_Brown]

Gareth, that's looking good buddy. The release, or lack of it suits the S&T pattern, as per the flying wedge video James has posted.

I am still unlearning old habits that I've acquired through 20 years of the classic wrist cock/ release swing. If you look at my newish swing video below, my hands are more active through the release area, which means I have to guard against the hooks that James mentions.

Since I shot this clip a couple of weeks ago, I have worked on more of a set-forward hands position at address, and it is helping. In this clip you can see the clubhead creeping in front of the hands at address, which is an old habit.

Foot flare is better here though.

All in all though the patten is really settling in. Last 3 rounds are 74, 76, 76 gross so playing well under my handicap, with a few qualifiers coming up

Any way here's the latest video. One of these days I'll manage to set the camera up level as it pokes out the pocket on my golf bag!

[video=youtube;-2baOCOOBeg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2baOCOOBeg&feature=youtube_gdata[/video]

 

[One Planer]

I am still unlearning old habits that I've acquired through 20 years of the classic wrist cock/ release swing. If you look at my newish swing video below, my hands are more active through the release area, which means I have to guard against the hooks that James mentions.

This is where I probably have a slight head start with only taking up the game in 2010, I have less "old habbits" to try and break or unlearn.

Since I shot this clip a couple of weeks ago, I have worked on more of a set-forward hands position at address, and it is helping. In this clip you can see the clubhead creeping in front of the hands at address, which is an old habit.

What I have found that helps me is I have intergrated a slight forward push into my set-up. Nothing drastic, but it ensures my hands are forward at address.

I set-up pretty much as I used to, then press my hands slightly forward so they are closer to my left thigh, then begin the swing. Seems to be working just fine at the minute as I find it easier to maintain the lag through the swing.

In that video (the one I posted), although the wedge is slightly de-lofted due to the forward press, the ball actually flies higher and longer than how I used to hit it. I think James hit the nail on the head when talking about spin angles. Perhaps hitting with more lag is increasing my angle into the ball and in turn increasing spin, who knows

With the longer clubs, the forward press is less pronounced as the ball is further forward in my stance.

Any way here's the latest video. One of these days I'll manage to set the camera up level as it pokes out the pocket on my golf bag!

I had to balance my phone on my range shoes, talk about improvisation

Your scoring looks nice and consistant too. Looks like you'll be getting a cut soon :thup:

 

[JustOne]

The biggest issue I see with S&T'ers is that they neglect the right side. Seeing as they are trying to keep everything left... and sliding, they don't turn the right hip though properly or the right shoulder (which drops back and down rather than rotating).. what then happens is they get to a position where they are stuck and the body stops rotating.. the hands then take over and the club tries to flip closed... hitting the ball low unless they really hold off the clubface.

Normally the set up is nice, good forward flex at address and nice left shoulder down in the backswing but this often comes with the left shoulder then lifting on the downswing rather than the right shoulder turning back down towards the ball. It's important to understand that the distance from your right shoulder and left hip at address (diagonal across your body) and the angle it is at address (relative to the ground) needs to return back to where is was at address on the downswing.. the right side can't just lag behind else you'll block or hook everything... the swing has to keep turning, the right hip has to come through and tuck, and the hands have to keep moving.

 

[One Planer]

The biggest issue I see with S&T'ers is that they neglect the right side. Seeing as they are trying to keep everything left... and sliding, they don't turn the right hip though properly or the right shoulder (which drops back and down rather than rotating).. what then happens is they get to a position where they are stuck and the body stops rotating.. the hands then take over and the club tries to flip closed... hitting the ball low unless they really hold off the clubface.

Normally the set up is nice, good forward flex at address and nice left shoulder down in the backswing but this often comes with the left shoulder then lifting on the downswing rather than the right shoulder turning back down towards the ball. It's important to understand that the distance from your right shoulder and left hip at address (diagonal across your body) and the angle it is at address (relative to the ground) needs to return back to where is was at address on the downswing.. the right side can't just lag behind else you'll block or hook everything... the swing has to keep turning, the right hip has to come through and tuck, and the hands have to keep moving.

Interesting point you make there James.

As a check point for turning the hips correctly. Where should the belt buckle point at impact? Is there even a correct position?

 

[JustOne]

As a check point for turning the hips correctly. Where should the belt buckle point at impact? Is there even a correct position?

Open

 

[garyinderry]

hitting this draw with an open club face has floored me

 

[One Planer]

hitting this draw with an open club face has floored me

How so?

 

[garyinderry]

because i can hook a ball with a closed face but this is news to me that i can hit a draw with an open face. im going to look into this stack and tilt as i natualy straighten my right leg out on the backswing. i cant keep it flexed with a gun to my head. this could be the way forward.

 

[One Planer]

because i can hook a ball with a closed face but this is news to me that i can hit a draw with an open face. im going to look into this stack and tilt as i natualy straighten my right leg out on the backswing. i cant keep it flexed with a gun to my head. this could be the way forward.

I take it you didn't read the ball flight law thread

 

[garyinderry]

that thread was causing a stirr just as i arrived here. i didnt know what the fuss was about. since ive made my way through this thread i may as well have a go at that one.

 

[One Planer]

that thread was causing a stirr just as i arrived here. i didnt know what the fuss was about. since ive made my way through this thread i may as well have a go at that one.

Definatley worth a read Gary.

Opend my eyes to what were my bad shots and gave me some insight into how to fix them.

 

[One Planer]

Yet another update (...... I know, I know)

Right. This is something I've been putting off, and off, and off so tonight I finally decided to bite the bullet and start work on trying to hit my driver to a better level than I currently do.

I've been watched plenty of videos on YouTube of S&T's poster boy Charlie Wi and the positions he hits through out his swing.

Specifically:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSgy5A7xlqs&list=FLjLmlOfygR2_BlFieBqGDeQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video

The one thing I notice about his swing how quiet his hands are through the swing. This is where I've felt I've been going wrong for sometime.

My wrists have been hinging too soon on the back swing, and releasing through the downswing towards impact and subsequently cutting across the ball causing my heavy fade, bordering on a slice.

Tonight I carried on with what I've been working on with my irons (hitting with more lag) and mad a mental effort not to hinge my wrists too early in the backswing and on my way down into the ball trying to keep my hands ahead at impact.

First few strikes much better but now instead of a "Bubba'esque" curve just a gentle curve (probably 5-10 yards) missing my target by about that margin to the right.

OK

Moved the ball back fractionally (Previous position just inside my left heel) only about a ball width or so. The difference was immediate, ball flew lovely and straight , suspecting it to be a one off, tee'd up another, went through the same set-up, swung, straight.

At out range there are little "greens" at the different distance markers. The green I was using as a maker was at 175 yards. My drives were carrying this to about, best guess of 190 average.

Here's the thing. My drives used to be very high, not exactly balooning but high with very little roll. Tonight, my drives were noticabley lower, much more penetrating and I was getting noticabley more roll. The last "green" is at 200 yards, with the back fence at 250 (I know the fence is 250 as the distance signs are hanging off it ) my drives were rolling a good 15-20 yards (best guess) on uncut, wet range grass and most were rolling just past the green at 200 to about 210-215 as an average. I did manage to hit 2 that rolled to the fence... Only just mind.

This is not long by forum standards but I honestly don't care. I'm happy that I can finally hit the bleeding thing straight. Out of a range bucket of 50 balls I hit 3 slices and only 1 hook and about 5 or 6 deffs and/or tops. The rest were a mix of mainly straight, a few gentle fade and even the odd draw but were within the general area of where I was aiming.

Checked the driver face after and.....

I know it's not the best, but the ball strikes are predominantly around the middle of the face, rather than to, heel, top, bottom, basically anywhere except the middle of the face that I've been used to

Over all, very happy with my first attempts to apply the swing to the driver. Still plenty of work to do to try and get the consistancy that I crave but the early signs are good :thup:

Oh, one more thing, before I forget.

Remember a different post by myself a while back about hitting my nine iron slightly out of the toe?

Turns out I just needed a little more lag :thup:

 

[shewy]

I'm glad it's working out for those who try it,for what it's worth I gave it a wee bash tonight and got to admit it's not for me.
My bad shot is a hook and this just screamed hook at me,I think it would take all winter to groove this in and I'm just not going down a swing change route again. I did however find an extra few yards with it.
Good luck with it guys.

 

[chris661]

Well I am finished with it again! Fed up of destructive hooks or stupid blocks! Good luck to the rest of you all giving it a go and I hope it works out for you now anyone want to buy the DVD's and book

 

[One Planer]

Well I am finished with it again! Fed up of destructive hooks or stupid blocks! Good luck to the rest of you all giving it a go and I hope it works out for you now anyone want to buy the DVD's and book

PM in progress

 

[JustOne]

Well I am finished with it again! Fed up of destructive hooks or stupid blocks! Good luck to the rest of you all giving it a go and I hope it works out for you now anyone want to buy the DVD's and book

If you don't rotate properly with ANY swing you'll hook it (or block it). With S&T the protagonists (that's you and me) spend too much time worrying about the lateral shift that the right side gets ignored.. hangs back and that's when you start hooking (swing becomes all arms when the right hip stops turning).... and blocking (right shoulder stuck back behind you) - simples

You should turn your right hip through and your right shoulder DOWN to the ball on the throughswing... and Bingo!