Old Skier
Tour Winner
Your not a lone voice in this and the whole thing is hyperthetical anyway as we all acknowledge that at club level the resources aren't there to identify slow players in a fair way.
Speed of play
- Thread starter R G Roden
- Start date
Colin L
Tour Winner
Old Skier
Tour Winner
We "draw" the majority of our comps and we "fiddle" it by putting a known slow player with two that don't hang around. It appears to work for us.
bobmac
Major Champion
Why not fiddle it and put the slow player out last with other slow players?
rulefan
Tour Winner
That was my reaction when I first encountered the concept of Group Pace of Play some years ago.
We debated it within my county but it got no support at all.
We debated it within my county but it got no support at all.
rbarras
Newbie
Im not sure if some sort of conclusion could come out of this
rulefan
Tour Winner
I do however think the 'staging post' is a good idea when the organisers are short of qualified referees.
Using 3 or 4 'unqualified' helpers to time the players through strategic holes to alert one referee with a buggy to a problem could be useful.
Using 3 or 4 'unqualified' helpers to time the players through strategic holes to alert one referee with a buggy to a problem could be useful.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Do you get involved in cards and comps. I wouldn't want to hang about waiting for know groups of slow players.
rulie
Head Pro
If you're not prepared to do anything about slow play, then just put up with it - no whining about it.
The group pace of play works, and the players appreciate that it works. (and I'm not going to enter any "moral" arguments about it; that's just arguing personal opinions.)
The group pace of play works, and the players appreciate that it works. (and I'm not going to enter any "moral" arguments about it; that's just arguing personal opinions.)
Colin L
Tour Winner
Moral arguments are just personal opinions???? Wow. To hold a moral objection to a course of action is hardly "whining about it". Slow play can be, and is managed without unfairness.
I wondered if the "it works so it it's all right" argument would emerge. That's what Donald Trump says about waterboarding.
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rulie
Head Pro
Your opinion is that it's immoral; my opinion is that it's not. I'm not going to argue personal opinions.
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rulefan
Tour Winner
My argument is that it isn't even necessary.
Further, pressure is being put on players who are trying to play their own game without having to worry about someone they are competing against.
In order to speed up play, should players be obliged to help search for a FC's ball.
Further, pressure is being put on players who are trying to play their own game without having to worry about someone they are competing against.
In order to speed up play, should players be obliged to help search for a FC's ball.
Colin L
Tour Winner
Morality: Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour.
Justice: The moral principle determining just conduct.
Opinion: A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
Fair enough if you don't want to enter an argument, but please don't trivialise morality and justice as mere matters of personal opinion.
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SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
In a two ball yesterday. Found ourselves behind a slow two-ball behind a slow three-ball (who had dropped a hole and half). But as the two-ball was so slow the three-ball never felt inclined to let them through.
We caught the two ball on the 9th and I put 8 bogeys from 10-17 down to hanging about waiting. Actually - TBH - it was just me. I was using the fact that we were waiting for all of the back nine as an excuse when it was just my rubbish chipping.
We caught the two ball on the 9th and I put 8 bogeys from 10-17 down to hanging about waiting. Actually - TBH - it was just me. I was using the fact that we were waiting for all of the back nine as an excuse when it was just my rubbish chipping.
rulie
Head Pro
Opinion: what one thinks about a particular topic or question
The Rules of golf permit the Committee to institute a pace of play policy, including a group place of play policy (as evidenced by one of the ruling bodies adopting it for their competitions), yet you think it's immoral. I consider that your opinion on a topic which is in concert with the Rules of golf; mine differs.
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Colin L
Tour Winner
Obviously, I am saying that the ruling body concerned is wrong by adopting a policy that is unjust. (I'm not actually convinced that Rules do permit this type of pace of play policy, but that's not the point.)
And by saying that, I'm not merely expressing a personal opinion. I'm making a judgment founded on the basic principle that it is unjust to punish an innocent person for actions committed by another person. That principle is not my invention, not a mere supposition on my part and it gives my conclusion an objectivity well beyond a personal opinion. It's not just what I "think about a topic". If that conclusion is thought to be wrong, it should be challenged either because it is in fact just to punish an innocent party or because although it is unjust, it is not applicable to a slow play policy.
And by saying that, I'm not merely expressing a personal opinion. I'm making a judgment founded on the basic principle that it is unjust to punish an innocent person for actions committed by another person. That principle is not my invention, not a mere supposition on my part and it gives my conclusion an objectivity well beyond a personal opinion. It's not just what I "think about a topic". If that conclusion is thought to be wrong, it should be challenged either because it is in fact just to punish an innocent party or because although it is unjust, it is not applicable to a slow play policy.
Colin L
Tour Winner
@ rulefan
Your email isn't working - sent you a PM.
Your email isn't working - sent you a PM.
rulefan
Tour Winner
See PM response
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
15 all?
ParParTripleBogey
Hacker
What about following, which builds on "ready golf" initiative:
1. Players are timed from the last stroke from teeing area (ie: clock is started when all players have played their stroke/any provisional).
2. Players play their ball when they are ready to play (but etiquette dictates players should respect other players in act of playing a stroke) - ie: see "ready golf".
3. Players have 8/10/12 minutes (for par 3/4/5 respectively) to get their ball on the putting green (after which point they are no longer subject to a time penalty).
4. Players failing to get their ball on the green in allocated time are subject to 1 penalty stroke.
5. Once on green, no time constraint and order of play is dictated by current rules/etiquette.
Such rules would ensure tee to green is completed in roughly 180 minutes on a standard par 72 (give or take any penalty infringements). That's 3 hours to get the bulk of the round done and another hour or so to take care of putting and walking between holes. That's still easily north of 4 hours for championships but gives some reasonable structure to the play of the hole, at the same time as allowing focus and structure on the green. Messing around with the tee to green time limits could bring different types of golf game into play (standard, speed, turbo, slow).
There are still issues with the format where groups on the green taking their time would impact groups trying to play onto the green under time restriction but a faster game should allow groups to wait on tee until groups in front are well clear.
Would need to find an optimal and fair time limit and would probably need to be adjusted per course, possibly per hole. Im not sure how time limits can be enforced in amateur game right enough - hopefully "ready golf" means that slower players are dragged round course quicker.
1. Players are timed from the last stroke from teeing area (ie: clock is started when all players have played their stroke/any provisional).
2. Players play their ball when they are ready to play (but etiquette dictates players should respect other players in act of playing a stroke) - ie: see "ready golf".
3. Players have 8/10/12 minutes (for par 3/4/5 respectively) to get their ball on the putting green (after which point they are no longer subject to a time penalty).
4. Players failing to get their ball on the green in allocated time are subject to 1 penalty stroke.
5. Once on green, no time constraint and order of play is dictated by current rules/etiquette.
Such rules would ensure tee to green is completed in roughly 180 minutes on a standard par 72 (give or take any penalty infringements). That's 3 hours to get the bulk of the round done and another hour or so to take care of putting and walking between holes. That's still easily north of 4 hours for championships but gives some reasonable structure to the play of the hole, at the same time as allowing focus and structure on the green. Messing around with the tee to green time limits could bring different types of golf game into play (standard, speed, turbo, slow).
There are still issues with the format where groups on the green taking their time would impact groups trying to play onto the green under time restriction but a faster game should allow groups to wait on tee until groups in front are well clear.
Would need to find an optimal and fair time limit and would probably need to be adjusted per course, possibly per hole. Im not sure how time limits can be enforced in amateur game right enough - hopefully "ready golf" means that slower players are dragged round course quicker.
