Slow play Hurts Your Scoring

[Deleted member 3432]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1487513750420824066

Unless the Tour actually do anything about whats the problem?

They are allowing players to play at a snails pace so it must be deemed OK.....

 

[Backsticks]

Danielle Kang

I could have missed that much quicker. Yes, thats terrible. This is the sort of nonsense a lot of people pick up though.

Ko was as bad, taking nearly a minute to hole a 1ft putt on the 18. Look from both sides, stand astride, align the ball, etc. 1ft !!!

 

[SurreyGolfer]

It's the variability that causes issues for me. I can be first out on the course and go round solo in 3hrs (and that includes multiple ball searches, topped drives, etc). However I know if I book at a more sociable time it's going to be much more than that. Saturday afternoon I was warned that I was looking at a 5hr round.....I ended up playing 9 in ~2.5hrs in a two ball. It was a mix of:
1) The club being very popular with both membership & P&P, solidly booked with 4 balls from 7:30-12:00 on Saturday spaced every 8 mins, and
2) Avoidable, infuriating, slow play (card marking on greens, etc)

Maybe the variability will get easier (currently have 2 young kids and a heavily pregnant wife), but right now it is so annoying, even more so because it's avoidable in a lot of instances. Very difficult to make it work with family life compared to a 'set time' sport like rugby, football, etc.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I could have missed that much quicker. Yes, thats terrible. This is the sort of nonsense a lot of people pick up though.

Ko was as bad, taking nearly a minute to hole a 1ft putt on the 18. Look from both sides, stand astride, align the ball, etc. 1ft !!!

The tour need to do more. No doubt. Even when players are "on the clock" which seems an arbitary threat as not much is done after that.

 

[sunshine]

How many courses have marshalls? That is perhaps worthy of a thread in itself but I am not sure if I have ever seen any. Possibly at Gleneagles but they may just have been staff going somewhere. Are they really a thing at members courses?

There is a course near me, the Shire in Barnet, which is mainly P&P and societies at weekends and it is notoriously slow. People just don't want to be a member there because it is 5hrs+ for a round even though its a decent course. So it's a vicious circle because it attracts newer / slower players, but then any quicker players move on.

In my experience the only courses that have marshals are mainly P&P, whether that is resort courses or societies. Private clubs don't need marshals because the members are typically more aware. In fact the poshest clubs seem to have the fastest pace of play.

 

[benjo09]

My course tried a few things to encourage quicker play this year. The first thing they tried was clocks at 5th, 10th and 15th tees that were offset by how long it should take you to that point so when you got to them they should read your original tee time or earlier. The problem was some members didn't understand this concept and so were adjusting the clocks to read the actual time and then complaining that all the clocks had wrong time so the fixed them when they got back to the clubhouse.

They then tried for a medal having everyone write down their finish time on their cards to see who was causing delays. The group in front lost over 2 holes to the group ahead of them but when I emailed complaining about them having had a 4:45 round and finishing in the dark, was told only about 1/3 of groups had added their times to the card so they couldn't tell where the delays were.

Had an email in the off season that they will be taking it a lot more seriously this year and aren't ruling out bans and other sanctions for the worst offenders so will see how this year goes.

 

[greenone]

Unless the Tour actually do anything about whats the problem?

They are allowing players to play at a snails pace so it must be deemed OK.....

The problem is people see it on TV so think if the pros are doing it then that's what I should be doing.

 

[Foxholer]

Unless the Tour actually do anything about whats the problem?

They are allowing players to play at a snails pace so it must be deemed OK.....

The problem is people see it on TV so think if the pros are doing it then that's what I should be doing.

It's not actually 'a problem for the Tour(s)' though. They have rules in place about pace of play, so unless a player is already close to breaking those limits, then there isn't an issue. That particular putt was both crucial (had she sunk it a playoff would likely have resulted) and was certainly not an easy one.
As for the bold bit...I disagree. Saving_par's description is better imo.
Another consideration...Extended broadcast as a result of slow play could actually be beneficial to other interested parties - broadcasters, tour and sponsors, with more coverage and ads, so perhaps there could be conflicts of interests involved too.

 

[greenone]

They get away with it as they have lots of golf going on so they can mask it. When your there live it is painful to watch. I personally wouldn't pay to go watch tour golf due to the pace of play. The discussion always comes up after the matchplay events when on the Sunday there isn't much golf so they can't mask the snails pace of play.

 

[Foxholer]

There is a course near me, the Shire in Barnet, which is mainly P&P and societies at weekends and it is notoriously slow. People just don't want to be a member there because it is 5hrs+ for a round even though its a decent course. So it's a vicious circle because it attracts newer / slower players, but then any quicker players move on.

In my experience the only courses that have marshals are mainly P&P, whether that is resort courses or societies. Private clubs don't need marshals because the members are typically more aware. In fact the poshest clubs seem to have the fastest pace of play.

I was a member there 2 years ago (having had to stop because of the need for a 2nd hip replacement) after several years as being part of a fourball hosted by a foundation member. I've never experienced a 5 hour round, though it's definitely not a quick course. I think tee times are 9 mins apart, but are really governed by the (evil, water surrounded) Par 3 start!
I hope to rejoin this summer, but that depends on how far up the considerable waiting list (so it's obviously popular) previous membership gets me. Meantime I'll play it as often as I can, travelling 40+ miles each way to do so - the consistently high quality greens being a major attraction, though there's also the typical 'hopeful masochist' attitude of a golf addict!
As a commercial venture, P&P is part of the mix, but there are a couple of sizeable swindles and plenty of other regulars who I presume are members too. Even the fact that it's on clay, so prone to sogginess isn't sufficiently off-putting, as drainage is gradually being resolved.
Worst problem is actually the fact that the Car Park can get too full!

 

[sunshine]

I was a member there 2 years ago (having had to stop because of the need for a 2nd hip replacement) after several years as being part of a fourball hosted by a foundation member. I've never experienced a 5 hour round, though it's definitely not a quick course. I think tee times are 9 mins apart, but are really governed by the (evil, water surrounded) Par 3 start!
I hope to rejoin this summer, but that depends on how far up the considerable waiting list (so it's obviously popular) previous membership gets me. Meantime I'll play it as often as I can, travelling 40+ miles each way to do so - the consistently high quality greens being a major attraction, though there's also the typical 'hopeful masochist' attitude of a golf addict!
As a commercial venture, P&P is part of the mix, but there are a couple of sizeable swindles and plenty of other regulars who I presume are members too. Even the fact that it's on clay, so prone to sogginess isn't sufficiently off-putting, as drainage is gradually being resolved.
Worst problem is actually the fact that the Car Park can get too full!

I've played the Shire a few times (in summer only) and it is a decent course. It is tough, there is a lot of water... but water hazards do not slow down play as much as long rough, people don't spend 3 minutes looking for a ball that's plopped into a pond!
The people I know who were members all drifted away because of the slow play... societies at the weekend etc.
The business model is deliberately different from a traditional members club (I applaud this), but the unintended consequence is that a lot of the golfers out on the course have never learned the etiquette of pace of play. When I think about my group of friends, the guys who aren't members of a club are much slower than those who are.

 

[Brechin balata]

I’ve not read the hole thread but I do find when getting let through or letting a single or 2 ball through when playing ina 4 ball it can slow things up. It takes time to play through especially if the people being let through fire or on to the woods. For me just letting groups through is not the answer

 

[clubchamp98]

I’ve not read the hole thread but I do find when getting let through or letting a single or 2 ball through when playing ina 4 ball it can slow things up. It takes time to play through especially if the people being let through fire or on to the woods. For me just letting groups through is not the answer

Spot on !
Letting through takes time and dosnt really address the main problem!
Why they are slow .

 

[Backsticks]

There is a course near me, the Shire in Barnet, which is mainly P&P and societies at weekends and it is notoriously slow. People just don't want to be a member there because it is 5hrs+ for a round even though its a decent course. So it's a vicious circle because it attracts newer / slower players, but then any quicker players move on.

That sounds more like natural selection at work and a good thing ! For those advocating segregation of the slower and faster players.

 

[Backsticks]

I’ve not read the hole thread but I do find when getting let through or letting a single or 2 ball through when playing ina 4 ball it can slow things up. It takes time to play through especially if the people being let through fire or on to the woods. For me just letting groups through is not the answer

Agree. I think the play through idea dates from a very different era sparsely populated courses, and just doesnt apply to the bumper to bumper full courses that are common today. Letting the differently-paced through just makes no sense whatsoever on a full course.
Even the old adage of your place being just behind the group in front is quite unfair, effectively allowing the fastest players impose their speed on the rest of the field.

 

[Backsticks]

The tour need to do more. No doubt. Even when players are "on the clock" which seems an arbitary threat as not much is done after that.

Not sure that it is really a problem for the tour though. Its work and showbiz. 4.5 hours or 5 hours - whats the difference really from their perspective. They need to hit predictable media windows, but 10 or 15 minutes here or there, if they budget on a 4.5 or 5 hours rounds isnt really an issue.

 

[Backache]

Even the old adage of your place being just behind the group in front is quite unfair, effectively allowing the fastest players impose their speed on the rest of the field.

I have never in my entire life of playing golf seen this happen or heard anyone complain of this happening on a golf course.
I have seen plenty of examples of slow players imposing their speed on the entire course and have sometimes walked off in frustration.

 

[BiMGuy]

You can see who the slow players are from some of the comments. I bed some of them love it knowing it’s winding everyone up, and they get a little power trip out of it.

 

[Boomy]

You can see who the slow players are from some of the comments. I bed some of them love it knowing it’s winding everyone up, and they get a little power trip out of it.

I honestly don’t think that the vast majority of slow players think/realise they are slow at all. They just bimble along in their own bubble, agitated at having groups right behind them and oblivious that they’ve lost 2 holes on the group in front “well it can’t be us as we are playing steady” I’ve heard it when people join our group for a game - we try to move things along but they’re caught up in their own routine - oblivious to the world moving around them. We’ve been on the green waiting whilst someone is cleaning their grooves 90 yards back ? Some of them just need a ? up their harris ?!!

 

[AliMc]

Or perhaps they weren't the slow group - as it was the one 3 or more holes ahead that was slow.
That's why marshals are the best way to manage pace of play.

Yeah that's why I said slower groups plural !