Slow play - Discussion

[Deleted member 18121]

This is the problem, what you don't understand is that you are not just swapping places!!!!

You're wrong, that is exactly what would happen.

 

[Allanxyz]

You're wrong, that is exactly what would happen.

Did the group in front let you know they would not let you through as they were in a comp or did they say it was because you were a 4 ball and thought you wouldn't be much quicker?

If you didn't speak to them, how would you know they wouldn't let the 2-ball through? A two ball isn't always quicker than a four ball...but many percieve it to be so and are more likely to let through a group with less players in.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

Did the group in front let you know they would not let you through as they were in a comp or did they say it was because you were a 4 ball and thought you wouldn't be much quicker?

If you didn't speak to them, how would you know they wouldn't let the 2-ball through? A two ball isn't always quicker than a four ball...but many percieve it to be so and are more likely to let through a group with less players in.

One of my playing partners spoke with them and they told us there were 9 groups 4 balls ahead of us playing the monthly competition.

At this point I wouldn't expect to try and play through that many people so sat back and accepted that it would be a slow round.

 

[Khamelion]

This is the problem, what you[adam6177] don't understand is that you are not just swapping places!!!!

You're wrong [Curls], that is exactly what would happen.

I see both sides of the argument you two [Curls & adam6177] are having. I've been there myself both as the person hoping for the fourball in front of me to wave my group through and as the group in front of the two ball thinking, 'what's the point of letting them through they'd not be going anywhere!'

Under normal circumstances I would have to agree with Curls, I mean what gives anyone the right to make the decisions for those groups in front of them? It may well be that if you let a group through they go no further and, yes, all you have done is swap places, and unless you have spoken to the groups in front you cannot know what the group in front may or may not do, they could let them through as well, thus allowing the two ball to progress and not be held up.

However in the scenario we are writing about, I think adam6177 is correct, it would've most probably been very unlikely that any of the four balls in the competition ahead would have let the 2 two though and in this instance if adam6177 had let the two ball through it would've acheived nothing.

 

[Curls]

You're wrong, that is exactly what would happen.

So why did you want to play through the 4 ball ahead of you?

I'm not talking about the one very specific case where there was a comp on (not that they can't allow folk through, they have priority yes but it's at their discretion so who knows perhaps they would have allowed the 2 through, they never got the chance because you made everyones mind up). I'm talking about everyone who says "its slow, no ones getting through us". It happens every weekend and is one of the main causes of 5 hour 30 minute rounds, regardless of your group size.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

So why did you want to play through the 4 ball ahead of you?

I'm not talking about the one very specific case where there was a comp on (not that they can't allow folk through, they have priority yes but it's at their discretion so who knows perhaps they would have allowed the 2 through, they never got the chance because you made everyones mind up). I'm talking about everyone who says "its slow, no ones getting through us". It happens every weekend and is one of the main causes of 5 hour 30 minute rounds, regardless of your group size.

If you're referring to the 4 ball incident from this weekend - because they'd lost 2 holes on the group in front and there was ground we would have made up.

If you're referring to the 4 ball from my original thread where we didn't allow the 2 ball through - as soon as they told us there were that many groups of 4 balls ahead we relaxed and enjoyed what we could of the round. As I'm sure is fresh your mind, my issue was not with the group in front being slow, but with the group behind firing balls at us.

I'm not an unreasonable person, as long as the group in front are keeping up with the group in front of them then I have no issue. Fair enough I may get a little despondent with having a slow round, but no issue with the guys in front if they're keeping up and doing their job.

What I do think is sensible however, which I think is where our sticking point is arising from, is that I am of the opinion that if the group in front have made it clear that we'll not be playing through them then why I should I let a 2 ball through just to see if the 4 ball will let them through instead? Fair enough if that is your opinion, but it is not mine and is illogical to me and the rest of the guys who made up my 4 ball.

 

[Curls]

I am of the opinion that if the group in front have made it clear that we'll not be playing through them then why I should I let a 2 ball through just to see if the 4 ball will let them through instead?

Lets leave it at that because I can't agree with this statement. Poor etiquette by the group in front does not excuse poor etiquette by you imo.

 

[fundy]

Do they? They have guidelines on how long a shot should take (50 seconds if you're first to play, 45 seconds for subsequent players), but I don't think they've got a line on how long a round should take. If they do, they're not applying it.

Anyways, my point is that one persons slow play is acceptable pace to others. One persons normal pace would be far too fast for some. I don't want to be on the course for 6 hours, but I don't want to jog around in 2 hours 45 minutes either.

If my group keeps up with the game in front, and the game behind us isn't firing balls over our heads, then we're playing at an appropriate pace.

And this sadly is a massive part of the problem, as if its ok for the pros then its ok for the amateur golfer to imitate them.

Slow play in professional golf is going to come to a head at some point, been simmering under the surface for a while, hopefully when it does it will filter through into the amateur game too

 

[Snelly]

There is only one thing that causes slow play and that is players who are not ready to pull the trigger when it is their turn. If it is your turn to play, that means swing the club and hit the ball.

If you are one of those silly, silly people that needs two practice swings and an extensive pre-shot routine before you can hit the ball then that is fine. Or you need to know to the nearest foot how far your 184 yard shot is so have to pace out yardages and use all your gizmos to get an exact distance (before chopping it 100 yards), then that is fine too. But you MUST do all this unnecessary and pointless faffing in advance of the point in time when it is your honour. When that time arrives, you need to be swinging the club and hitting the ball.

If everyone did this, slow play would not exist as it does today.

It really is that simple.

 

[Allanxyz]

There is only one thing that causes slow play and that is players who are not ready to pull the trigger when it is their turn. If it is your turn to play, that means swing the club and hit the ball.

If you are one of those silly, silly people that needs two practice swings and an extensive pre-shot routine before you can hit the ball then that is fine. Or you need to know to the nearest foot how far your 184 yard shot is so have to pace out yardages and use all your gizmos to get an exact distance (before chopping it 100 yards), then that is fine too. But you MUST do all this unnecessary and pointless faffing in advance of the point in time when it is your honour. When that time arrives, you need to be swinging the club and hitting the ball.

If everyone did this, slow play would not exist as it does today.

It really is that simple.

So you're ready to play as soon as it's your go...you hack the ball into the thick stuff.... you're playing partner then takes his swing as soon as you have taken your shot and does likewise... potentially 10 minutes of ball searching... all the speed in the world doesn't help if you are always hacking into the thick rough... so etiquette needed to call others through, or change the 5 minute search rule to a 1 minute rule!

 

[Twire]

There is only one thing that causes slow play and that is players who are not ready to pull the trigger when it is their turn. If it is your turn to play, that means swing the club and hit the ball.

If you are one of those silly, silly people that needs two practice swings and an extensive pre-shot routine before you can hit the ball then that is fine. Or you need to know to the nearest foot how far your 184 yard shot is so have to pace out yardages and use all your gizmos to get an exact distance (before chopping it 100 yards), then that is fine too. But you MUST do all this unnecessary and pointless faffing in advance of the point in time when it is your honour. When that time arrives, you need to be swinging the club and hitting the ball.

If everyone did this, slow play would not exist as it does today.

It really is that simple.

Amen to that.

 

[Twire]

I was having a discussion with one of our lady members after the ranger had been out on their comp day to try and speed things up. She was telling me that she couldn't run around the course with her dodgy knees and felt quite harassed. I tried to explain that the walking between shots very rarely causes slow play, the main contributor to this is not being ready when it's your turn to play. You'd think I was talking Chinese to her.

 

[Snelly]

So you're ready to play as soon as it's your go...you hack the ball into the thick stuff.... you're playing partner then takes his swing as soon as you have taken your shot and does likewise... potentially 10 minutes of ball searching... all the speed in the world doesn't help if you are always hacking into the thick rough... so etiquette needed to call others through, or change the 5 minute search rule to a 1 minute rule!

That isn't quite what I meant and I would've thought that relatively obvious?

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or inclination to expand the post to cover every eventuality and meet the needs of the hard of learning.

 

[Deleted member 18121]

meet the needs of the hard of learning.

That actually made me LOL in the middle of my office.

 

[Allanxyz]

That isn't quite what I meant and I would've thought that relatively obvious?

Unfortunately, I don't have the time or inclination to expand the post to cover every eventuality and meet the needs of the hard of learning.

I might be hard of learning, but I guess it's something you don't have to trouble yourself with, with such a simplistic view of life. If you reckon that it's as simple as people being ready to take their shots and that's the end of the whole problem then I guess all is well in your world.

 

[Imurg]

I like the old adage "keep up with the group ahead and in front of the group behind. If you can't, let those behind play through"

The Ettiquette section of the rule book says as much doesn't it...?

If everyone followed this rule wouldn't it solve the problem..?

 

[Deleted member 18121]

I like the old adage "keep up with the group ahead and in front of the group behind. If you can't, let those behind play through"

The Ettiquette section of the rule book says as much doesn't it...?

If everyone followed this rule wouldn't it solve the problem..?

absolutely

 

[Baldy Bouncer]

One of the things I`ve noticed recently at our place is that some of the more senior players don`t wait the full 8 minutes on the 1st tee and drive off as soon as the group in front are clear("we wont reach them, lets drive off") consequently I`ve seen 4 or more groups of 3balls on the 1st(par 5). What then happens is that the not so senior guys are then waiting longer than 8 minutes on the tee because they will reach the group in front with their drives, this then causes a backlog on the 1st, meaning by the afternoon, the groups on the 1st tee have been waiting 15 minutes or longer to tee off.
By the 3rd hole(long par3) you could see 1 group on the green,one group waiting to get to the green or their balls(call on hole) and 4-5 groups waiting on the tee. It`s ridiculous!!! Oh to have a Marshall or 2.
These same seniors then get to the 11th (par3) and break out the coffee and biccies and sit down on the bench and discuss how their round is going,when the green is empty up ahead!!! It beggars belief, it really does.
The commitee have put up signs around the clubhouse and at various points on the course guarding against slow play and pace of play, and have been going round in buggies speeding people up, but unfortunately most of the commitee are made up of...yep...the more senior players who tee off before the full 8 minutes has elapsed!!!!AAAAARRRRGGGG.
Don`t get me wrong, it`s not just the more senior players that are slow, a lot of the "all the gear no idea" brigade are as slow, and as previously mentioned, some of the better juniors/25-30 year olds are as bad as well(4-5 practice swings, weighing up ever possible line on the green etc etc.) but it`s just that these guys(the seniors) all play together and at the same time, early, every Saturday, causing the slow play/pace problem.
And breathe..........

 

[GB72]

The thing that I have noticed is that many clubs seem to have notices, advice etc about slow play then leave it at that and do nothing to monitor and police it. Maybe they need to look at the odd group and record their time in and out etc to see what the pace of play is like or occasionally take a buggy round the course looking for gaps etc. Nobody likes to admit to slow play but having someone point it out to them is more likely to make a difference. It does not take much and I am certainly not saying that they should be timing every round but a little bit more interaction and investigation may help things and would avoid the uncomfortable situation of club members having to 'inform' on fellow members and suffer the ill feeling that it causes.

 

[Slime]

I'm coming clean here .................. I am a 'slow' player.
I don't play as often as most of you do and so want to spend as much time as possible just enjoying being on the golf course.
Knowing that I take my time makes me doubly aware that I MUST NOT hold up anyone who wants to play faster.
I'll happily let faster players through ..... as much for my sake as theirs but there are a couple of things that really boil my swede.
I don't understand players who are not ready to play when on a tee or a green, there is really no excuse.
If I'm not putting first I'll be lining up my putt, not watching my partner putt, so when it's my go there's no lining up to be done & I just get on with it, and the same applies for my second & third putt too!
I love being on a golf course but I hate 'wasting' time.

Slime.