Slow play again

[clubchamp98]

It doesnt take long to let a group through and it doesnt have to have a negative effect on other groups behind, if done properly.

If searching for a ball, wave the group behind up, once they have tee'd off, you can play your second shots, wait for them to reach you, invite them to play their second shots, all walk to the green together. Let them putt out and by the time you've finished putting out they will no doubt have teed off and be on their way down the next fairway. Far quicker than you waving them through whilst looking for a ball and then waiting for them to complete the hole before playing your second shots.

Common sense you mean!

This is missing in all walks of life now especially golf.

 

[Backsticks]

And it is incredibly selfish in my view.
Just like a tractor on a country lane every now and again pulls in to let the queue of traffic behind, this is sensible good manners.
Those who are happy to have an empty course in front of them and a queue of golfers behind them and won’t do anything about it are arrogant, rude and selfish.

This misunderstanding, and false analogy, is probably the nub of the misplaced rancour from the anti slow play lobby. It is without solid foundation.

People will play at different paces. There is no getting around that. Faster groups will have to wait in most cases and it cannot be levelled. They have to accept that rather than see their pace as 'correct' and that of slower players as 'wrong' and in need of correction.

(of course, on a not fully packed course, a slower group should let a faster group through if there is a hole or more free ahead of them, but thats not really what we are talking about). Slower players are not second class citizens who must step aside for the superior being faster players.)

 

[D-S]

(of course, on a not fully packed course, a slower group should let a faster group through if there is a hole or more free ahead of them, but thats not really what we are talking about).

Yes we are and yes they should.
If the course is fully packed or not if you have a free hole ahead of you and you are holding up the group behind just let them through.
If there isn’t a gap, fine, your keeping up with the group ahead so there is no issue.
Not a difficult concept to grasp but oddly some want to ignore it.
Just do this and everyone has a better day, it’s not rocket science.

 

[PaulMdj]

Yes we are and yes they should.
If the course is fully packed or not if you have a free hole ahead of you and you are holding up the group behind just let them through.
If there isn’t a gap, fine, your keeping up with the group ahead so there is no issue.
Not a difficult concept to grasp but oddly some want to ignore it.
Just do this and everyone has a better day, it’s not rocket science.

This all day long, we have members that believe you don’t have let anybody through if they’re playing in a comp.

 

[clubchamp98]

This all day long, we have members that believe you don’t have let anybody through if they’re playing in a comp.

Education in golf is a problem imo.
If you join a club to be with your mates you tend to pick up their habits.
If he’s a etiquette moron you then have two of them!

 

[bobmac]

Your idea in principle is good but just not practical.
Imo of course.

So to reduce slow play you can either.....
1. Educate golfers to play quicker....tried for years and hasn't worked
2. Longer gaps, 10 mins between tee times....loss of available tee times. 60 to 80 golfers won't get a game.
3. Tell slow groups to let faster groups through...tried for years and hasn't worked.
4. Ready golf....hasn't worked, slow players will still be slow.
5. Course marshals... who's going to volunteer?
6. Try a new idea which allows EVERYONE to play at the pace they choose.....good idea, never been tried but wouldn't work at our place.

Any other new ideas that haven't been tried in the last hundred years?

One last question if I may please...
How many notoriously slow players do you have at your club?

People will play at different paces. There is no getting around that.

Correct

Faster groups will have to wait in most cases and it cannot be levelled.

Yes it can

They have to accept that rather than see their pace as 'correct' and that of slower players as 'wrong' and in need of correction.

No they don't.
Faster players out first will have no influence on slower players game. Slow players out first will hold up the whole field and dictate their pace to everyone else.
Of course slow players should call faster groups but they can't call everyone through.

 

[Orikoru]

If it stresses you out when people are waiting for you, do you not find it easlier to just let the faster group through?

Or is it the opposite, where you struggle when slower groups call you through? This is what happens to me. However well I'm playing, I turn into a complete hacker when a group calls me through... I know I'm not alone

Earlier this year my mate and I were waved through by a four ball. I pulled my tee shot into the left trees, mate skied his 100 yards. He then hit his second miles left and never found his ball, while I chipped out of the trees and then shanked it towards the pond. We both just walked on to the next hole immediately after that.

 

[Voyager EMH]

This one is very odd.
County seniors tournaments played in three balls.
Always drawn in handicap order with the highest out first and the lowest last.
The higher handicaps tend to be the older geezers.
This is quite obviously the wrong way round, but the idea seems to be that it is "nice" to have any potential winner finishing last.

Playing in such a comp one time, a course marshal asked our group to speed up. We had one slow player, chap in his mid-seventies and overweight.
Nothing much the other two of us could do to speed up, but walk faster.
Other chap could not do this, so it would be pointless. It would also have been very discourteous to the other chap.
Course marshal did not even walk one hole with us to identify the reason for the slow play, but asked us all to speed up. Also pointless.
Accusing two of us, who were not slow players, for slow play was wrong and also discourteous.

Accepting that there are some players who are slower than others would seem sensible and courteous.

Some years ago we had two elderly chaps at our club who suggested that in club comps they should be allowed to play as a two ball amongst the three balls.
This was very sensible and courteous to everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

Playing in such a comp one time, a course marshal asked our group to speed up. We had one slow player, chap in his mid-seventies and overweight.
Nothing much the other two of us could do to speed up, but walk faster.
Other chap could not do this, so it would be pointless. It would also have been very discourteous to the other chap.
Course marshal did not even walk one hole with us to identify the reason for the slow play, but asked us all to speed up. Also pointless.
Accusing two of us, who were not slow players, for slow play was wrong and also discourteous.

Accepting that there are some players who are slower than others would seem sensible and courteous.

NO NO NO NO NO

There is SO much wrong in there.

First of all, the comment about being discourteous to the slow bloke is ridiculous, if he can't get round in an acceptable pace he shouldn't be there. Everyone has a duty to get round in a decent speed.

Secondly, why do people get so childish when they're told they are out of position and need to speed up? Nobody "accused" you, it's the official's job to tell you the statement of fact that you are not playing swiftly enough as a group. If you continue to play slowly they will start to identify the reason.

Why should the majority accept that some people are slow and therefore degrade the way things are played for the selfish minority?

 

[Voyager EMH]

NO NO NO NO NO

There is SO much wrong in there.

First of all, the comment about being discourteous to the slow bloke is ridiculous, if he can't get round in an acceptable pace he shouldn't be there. Everyone has a duty to get round in a decent speed.

Secondly, why do people get so childish when they're told they are out of position and need to speed up? Nobody "accused" you, it's the official's job to tell you the statement of fact that you are not playing swiftly enough as a group. If you continue to play slowly they will start to identify the reason.

Why should the majority accept that some people are slow and therefore degrade the way things are played for the selfish minority?

"Listen here, you fat old *****! You are too old, too fat and too slow. Just get off the course right now."

That will be my solution from now on.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

"Listen here, you fat old *****! You are too old, too fat and too slow. Just get off the course right now."

That will be my solution from now on.

View attachment 52690

Just the slow bit is perfectly fine, the old and fat is unnecessary.

 

[Orikoru]

NO NO NO NO NO

There is SO much wrong in there.

First of all, the comment about being discourteous to the slow bloke is ridiculous, if he can't get round in an acceptable pace he shouldn't be there. Everyone has a duty to get round in a decent speed.

Secondly, why do people get so childish when they're told they are out of position and need to speed up? Nobody "accused" you, it's the official's job to tell you the statement of fact that you are not playing swiftly enough as a group. If you continue to play slowly they will start to identify the reason.

Why should the majority accept that some people are slow and therefore degrade the way things are played for the selfish minority?

lol, come off it. Perhaps the slow old feller should be allowed a buggy of some description, or be told to let people through, but to say he shouldn't be on the course is borderline age discrimination. Never going to happen.

And as for the second point, in some competitions I imagine the group could be given a penalty if they are warned about pace of play more than once, so would of course be unfair on Voyager and the other player who wasn't slow.

 

[Deleted member 35504]

lol, come off it. Perhaps the slow old feller should be allowed a buggy of some description, or be told to let people through, but to say he shouldn't be on the course is borderline age discrimination. Never going to happen.

And as for the second point, in some competitions I imagine the group could be given a penalty if they are warned about pace of play more than once, so would of course be unfair on Voyager and the other player who wasn't slow.

No.
It's a county tournament which should have some degree of integrity and prestige.

I stand by my point, if someone can't get round in an acceptable time they should either take a buggy as you say (if permitted in the rules) or not play. This isn't saying don't play at all, it's saying he can't play in this specific comp. It's nothing to do with age, if he has genuine medical issues then we go back to the buggy suggestion.

The rules on pace of play, warnings and subsequent action are all laid out and are clear, although he did say "marshall" as opposed to the rules official.

 

[PaulMdj]

No.
It's a county tournament which should have some degree of integrity and prestige.

I stand by my point, if someone can't get round in an acceptable time they should either take a buggy as you say (if permitted in the rules) or not play. This isn't saying don't play at all, it's saying he can't play in this specific comp. It's nothing to do with age, if he has genuine medical issues then we go back to the buggy suggestion.

The rules on pace of play, warnings and subsequent action are all laid out and are clear, although he did say "marshall" as opposed to the rules official.

I agree in principle with everything you say except for it being too late if he’s on the course.

Pace of play/acceptable time etc should be made clear prior to any tournament starting, if a group in front are particularly fast it can make the group behind appear slow.

A group playing in 3hr 30mins can appear slow to a group playing in 3hrs 10mins.

All this slow/fast etc needs to be quantified, otherwise it is simply perception.

Each course is different and those that have signs on the course after 6, 9, 12 holes giving an expected time to have completed said holes or timings printed on the scorecard can help.

 

[Mandofred]

So to reduce slow play you can either.....
1. Educate golfers to play quicker....tried for years and hasn't worked
2. Longer gaps, 10 mins between tee times....loss of available tee times. 60 to 80 golfers won't get a game.
3. Tell slow groups to let faster groups through...tried for years and hasn't worked.
4. Ready golf....hasn't worked, slow players will still be slow.
5. Course marshals... who's going to volunteer?
6. Try a new idea which allows EVERYONE to play at the pace they choose.....good idea, never been tried but wouldn't work at our place.

Any other new ideas that haven't been tried in the last hundred years?

Why not pay someone? Even if it isn't every day-all day....just having someone out there part time would help. My old course had a few people out on the course for a while last summer....no idea if it helped or not. But I've also rarely had a round that lasted 4.5hrs.

I'm a fairly quick player, I wouldn't call myself overly fast though. I don't even mind if things are a "little" slow.....I just want it to be in a reasonable speed range. 5hrs is waaaaay too slow. 4.5hr is about as slow as I can deal with.

There have been a few times over the years when I've played in a group that went around in about 4hrs....maybe a hair slower and had the group behind mention how slow we were. My response has usually been something like "I timed it, 4:05...seems reasonable to me".

Golfers.....are no more reasonable than any other people in the world. Golfers also hate change....ANY change.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

My Grandfather, who played in the Vardon era, swore by a good fitting pair of tackity boots [or bits as they were known by in Scotland at that time]

Vardon’s book contains guidance thoughts and illustration on Shoes better than boots - How the soles should be nailed

Compared with back then golfing attire is so straightforward these days…

 

[bobmac]

There have been a few times over the years when I've played in a group that went around in about 4hrs....maybe a hair slower and had the group behind mention how slow we were. My response has usually been something like "I timed it, 4:05...seems reasonable to me".

And therein lies the whole problem.
What's reasonable to you isn't reasonable to others and who's to say who's right and who's wrong?

There will be a few who say 4.05 is too slow while a few will say it's too fast.
Why not use a system that keeps everyone happy?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

This all day long, we have members that believe you don’t have let anybody through if they’re playing in a comp.

Conversely some clubs have an etiquette rule that says a group playing casual golf should always look to let through a formal match…even if the course is full ahead. It’s then the decision of the match as to whether they accept the offer or not. Usually not in my experience.

 

[PaulMdj]

Conversely some clubs have an etiquette rule that says a group playing casual golf should always look to let through a formal match…even if the course is full ahead. It’s then the decision of the match as to whether they accept the offer or not. Usually not in my experience.

I mean in a comp when a group is not keeping up with play!

 

[PaulMdj]

And therein lies the whole problem.
What's reasonable to you isn't reasonable to others and who's to say who's right and who's wrong?

There will be a few who say 4.05 is too slow while a few will say it's too fast.
Why not use a system that keeps everyone happy?

To use your system somebody has to say what is right and what is wrong.
You can’t have it both ways