Signing and Returning scorecard Rule 6-6b

[duncan mackie]

Reading this thread it appears to be a rather large variable. Unless your saying that your interpretation is correct and you are in a position to know its correct and then I will willing accept your interpretation.

what I meant was that the rules are not written to be open to interpretation - in cases where it's unavoidable they go to great lengths to cover off through definitions or decisions eg 'small objects' and the biggest one 'known or virtually certain'. Situations can arise where conditions (on course) require interpretation; but again the rules make it clear whose responsibilitiy it is to avoid them, or rule on them if necessary.

Put another way - they mean exactly what they say; even to the extent that if they don't say something it's often for a reason too.

 

[Colin L]

Personally I think it is quite clear that the whole thing should take place after completion of the round, but I don't think we'll ever agree on that.

On the contrary, I entirely agree with that: the whole process should take place after completion of the round (and I've never seen it otherwise). The debate has been about whether the player must sign after the round as opposed to earlier. In my reckoning, the wording of the rule does not make it a must.

 

[Old Skier]

Put the problem here is that members of the thread cannot agree to what the rule actually says. Email pinged to the hollowed halls and as the oportunity is there, a chat with a county rules man (I know) in an hours time.

 

[Colin L]

The hollowed halls - neat typo or deliberate? There must be a few echoes in there.

Thanks for doing that. By the way, you are already chatting with county rules men.

 

[Old Skier]

Thanks for doing that. By the way, you are already chatting with county rules men.

I presumed as much, hence the confusion , Hopefully the ones that are agreeing with each other, well most of them anyway.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

85 posts on signing a scorecard...........I do enjoy this forum!

My interpretation of this is that you always 'sign off' a card.

Would you sign for a parcel that you have yet to receive?
55 years playing and NEVER not signed my card.

 

[duncan mackie]

On the contrary, I entirely agree with that: the whole process should take place after completion of the round (and I've never seen it otherwise). The debate has been about whether the player must sign after the round as opposed to earlier. In my reckoning, the wording of the rule does not make it a must.

you beat me to it word for word (although I have knowingly seen it otherwise on 2 occassions, both following DQ in the previous comp for not signing their cards )

 

[3offTheTee]

Well guys I did NOT think my original post would involve so much debate.

However taking into account the balance of probabilities I think I SHOULD be OK to continue to sign before I play or have I misinterpreted something !!!!

 

[Old Skier]

Well guys I did NOT think my original post would involve so much debate.

However taking into account the balance of probabilities I think I SHOULD be OK to continue to sign before I play or have I misinterpreted something !!!!

A quick wait out on that one as something interesting come up today and its to late to go into now and I am waiting for a response from HQ.

 

[palindromicbob]

On the contrary, I entirely agree with that: the whole process should take place after completion of the round (and I've never seen it otherwise). The debate has been about whether the player must sign after the round as opposed to earlier. In my reckoning, the wording of the rule does not make it a must.

Lol. All it needs is one word added and it would clarify it completely.

After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must then ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.

A quick wait out on that one as something interesting come up today and its to late to go into now and I am waiting for a response from HQ.

Looking forward to hearing this one Old Skier.

 

[chrisd]

The rule says

b. Signing and Returning Score Card

After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.[/b]

So, the marker signs the card on completion of the round, the player signs the card after completion of the round. Exactly where is the confusion?

Given that the rules are to be taken literally, they give the order of procedure and I'd be staggered if signing before was ok. If I or a playing partner/s have a decent score then I always insist that they check every score, dates, tees used, handicap recorded and signatures befor putting the card in the box. I know that som of those things are not crucial but It is a bummer to lose a comp through a silly error but a lot of us have done so!

 

[Old Skier]

Right - sat down with a few county boys after a great day out on the course to chat about this one over a decent red, there were three official rules guys present.

None had come across this before as a problem but agreed that if there was a requirement to deal with it after much diliberation (and a couple more bottles) a majority decision was forthcoming.

1. I'm spending to much time around these people.
2. After reading the rule and the "Understanding the Words" section of the book It was decided because the word MUST was in the paragraph then you must ensure the card is signed at the end of the round.
3. Got home around 2145 hrs and email from HQ had arrived: -
Dear Silly Old Skier

Thank you for your email and query on the Rules of Golf.

There is no Rule preventing a player from signing a score card in advance of starting the stipulated round. However, the key is that the signature attests to the score therefore, generally score cards are signed following the round, as this is the seal of approval of the score achieved by the player.

Whilst there is no penalty for signing the card in advance, this practice is not recommended ".

So there you have it the rule is there but the rule as some have hinted at, because of the wording don't count. Lets hope for the 2015 edition they leave that one out then.

So at least we have an official ruling and one I obviously can pass on to those that, should the time arise, put in the picture, be it somewhat abstract. Mind you the state of some of the cards I get after a comp by 2015 I suspect all that will be required is a thumb print.

Endex on this one then
I hope that this is of assistance.

 

[Colin L]

Thanks for going to that trouble. I confess to a mixture of being pleased with myself for getting it right - and a great deal of relief as well.

Cheers, Duncan and anyone else who was of the same view :cheers:

 

[MashieNiblick]

Thanks OS. Been an interesting debate. Must say I was reading your post on tenterhooks.

 

[3offTheTee]

Well done old skier. I have received an answer to my original post. Excellent and thank you for all the contributions

 

[Old Skier]

Thanks for going to that trouble. I confess to a mixture of being pleased with myself for getting it right - and a great deal of relief as well.

Cheers, Duncan and anyone else who was of the same view :cheers:

Its alright for you, I have now got to spend another red wine night telling a few old farts that they (and me) were wrong in their cnclusions. This is costing a fortune.

 

[palindromicbob]

Right - sat down with a few county boys after a great day out on the course to chat about this one over a decent red, there were three official rules guys present.

None had come across this before as a problem but agreed that if there was a requirement to deal with it after much diliberation (and a couple more bottles) a majority decision was forthcoming.

1. I'm spending to much time around these people.
2. After reading the rule and the "Understanding the Words" section of the book It was decided because the word MUST was in the paragraph then you must ensure the card is signed at the end of the round.
3. Got home around 2145 hrs and email from HQ had arrived: -
Dear Silly Old Skier

Thank you for your email and query on the Rules of Golf.

There is no Rule preventing a player from signing a score card in advance of starting the stipulated round. However, the key is that the signature attests to the score therefore, generally score cards are signed following the round, as this is the seal of approval of the score achieved by the player.

Whilst there is no penalty for signing the card in advance, this practice is not recommended ".

So there you have it the rule is there but the rule as some have hinted at, because of the wording don't count. Lets hope for the 2015 edition they leave that one out then.

So at least we have an official ruling and one I obviously can pass on to those that, should the time arise, put in the picture, be it somewhat abstract. Mind you the state of some of the cards I get after a comp by 2015 I suspect all that will be required is a thumb print.

Endex on this one then
I hope that this is of assistance.

Sound a much nicer way to debate the rule. Personally I'd have to go down the whiskey route though.

Thanks Oldskier. Great clarification.

 

[Foxholer]

So at least we have an official ruling and one I obviously can pass on to those that, should the time arise, put in the picture, be it somewhat abstract. Mind you the state of some of the cards I get after a comp by 2015 I suspect all that will be required is a thumb print.

Thanks for the work OS.

Can't agree with your conclusion though. The authorities could well be happy with the way it's written now. Demonstrates, once again, that Rules should be read literally, with no interpretation. And 2015? Next release is 2016, though obviously a need to prepare.

 

[williamalex1]

Thanks for the work OS.

Can't agree with your conclusion though. The authorities could well be happy with the way it's written now. Demonstrates, once again, that Rules should be read literally, with no interpretation. And 2015? Next release is 2016, though obviously a need to prepare.

Is that you Winston , are you still game ?

 

[SGC001]

Wow a lot of posts here, especially considering Harrington's indicated he's been doing (pre-signing or pre-initialising) ever since he got Dq'd (at the Belfry?) for not signing a scorecard that was iirc noticed when it was framed for a course record.