woofers
Medal Winner
Is it acceptable and within the rules for a player to sign their blank scorecard before the round has commenced and then pass it to the marker for completion during the round?
Signing a scorecard
- Thread starter woofers
- Start date
apj0524
Head Pro
yes
NearHull
Well-known member
chrisd
Major Champion
I've signed my card, and also the card I'm marking at start of the round, that way I dont cow up what could be a winning score by forgetting
jim8flog
Journeyman Pro
I would question blanket answers that only shows what happens where you play rather than what is in the rule book.
We still require cards to be returned and completed as per the rules of golf where I play. Personally I sign my card and give my card to my marker before starting a round.
However Rule 3.3b (2) does state this should happen after the round.
Neilds
Assistant Pro
As the rules state that the marker and player are certifying the scores, how can this be done before the round. Do it properly after the round and it becomes routine
doublebogey7
Head Pro
Really can you please point me in the direction of that rule. Rule 3.3b(2), appears to indicate that the card must be signed.
Old Skier
Tour Winner
Apologies - you no longer need to put your HC on the card. Got the wrong end of the stick.
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wjemather
Well-known member
Yes, you may sign the card before the round (indeed you can write whatever you like on it at any time) but doing so would not meet the player responsibilities set out in the rules.
Among other actions, it is the player's responsibility to "check..." and "certify the hole scores" "when the round has ended", so if the the competition committee if aware that the card was signed before the round and not after, they may decide that you have not done this and DQ you (or apply the appropriate penalty if MLR-L1 is in place).
chrisd
Major Champion
I find that difficult to believe. I sign both cards before going out but always always check and certify the hole scores before handing the card to the player. Does it say in the rules that the act of signing the card is what " certifies " the round or is it the act of asking the player to agree the scores on each hole?
wjemather
Well-known member
Why would we sign the scorecard at all if it wasn't the accepted method of certification?
chrisd
Major Champion
So, do the rules prohibit signing the card before play ?
wjemather
Well-known member
No, but as indicated in my original comment (post #9), doing so is meaningless. You would still need to certify the scores after the round.
chrisd
Major Champion
My understanding of the rules is, if they don't say you can't do something then you can.
I do certify the scores after the round , I check they match my scorecard and then give the card to the player. I believe I have correctly certified the players scores and have breached no rules
Colin L
Tour Winner
Perhaps it's worth reminding ourselves of what Rule 3.3b actually says and does not say.
The marker must certify the hole scores on the scorecard....
The player must make sure that the marker certifies the hole scores on the scorecard...
The. player must certify the hole scores on the scorecard....
Scores must be certified. A written signature is a method of certification not the method.
A scorecard is not necessarily a bit of card you can write on. The Rules clearly refers to electronic scorecards in Clarification 3.3b(2)/1:
The Committee may require players to use a scorecard other than a paper scorecard (such as an electronic form of scorecard)
Whatever form the scorecard takes, scores have to be certified but the Rules do not specify in any way how certification is done. There is no mention anywhere of signing or of signatures.
As to whether a paper scorecard is certified if the player signs it before the round, I would say most definitely it is. The card is signed and by that signature the scores are verified whichever way round the signature and scores were recorded. Both are on the card when it is handed in.
It's like having one of two signatories to a cheque sign it before it is filled in and counter-signed by the other. That the first signature was written before the details of the payee and amount does no invalidate the cheque.
The marker must certify the hole scores on the scorecard....
The player must make sure that the marker certifies the hole scores on the scorecard...
The. player must certify the hole scores on the scorecard....
Scores must be certified. A written signature is a method of certification not the method.
A scorecard is not necessarily a bit of card you can write on. The Rules clearly refers to electronic scorecards in Clarification 3.3b(2)/1:
The Committee may require players to use a scorecard other than a paper scorecard (such as an electronic form of scorecard)
Whatever form the scorecard takes, scores have to be certified but the Rules do not specify in any way how certification is done. There is no mention anywhere of signing or of signatures.
As to whether a paper scorecard is certified if the player signs it before the round, I would say most definitely it is. The card is signed and by that signature the scores are verified whichever way round the signature and scores were recorded. Both are on the card when it is handed in.
It's like having one of two signatories to a cheque sign it before it is filled in and counter-signed by the other. That the first signature was written before the details of the payee and amount does no invalidate the cheque.
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chrisd
Major Champion
Thank you Colin
wjemather
Well-known member
So, when the round has ended you have checked the scores; how exactly have you certified them?
wjemather
Well-known member
But the rules do specify when certification is done, which is the issue at hand here.
chrisd
Major Champion
Sorry, I do certify within the rules as Colin has indicated
All the scores are checked and agreed before the player gets the card from me - the signing of the card is not " the method" as Colin confirms and I never forget to sign a winning card which has happened to many on here. Nothing I've done is against the rules or I wouldn't have done it!
wjemather
Well-known member
Just so we're clear, what exactly is your method of certification (since you have eschewed the usual action of signing the scorecard)? Also, are the committee aware of this novel method and find it acceptable?
