Signing and Returning scorecard Rule 6-6b

[Foxholer]

Is that you Winston , are you still game ?

Must be fun at 10 o'clock on a Friday night in Uddingston. Bucky anyone?

 

[williamalex1]

Must be fun at 10 o'clock on a Friday night in Uddingston. Bucky anyone?

Brandy I'm afraid, but is that Winston as your avatar?. And before you ask that not me in mine.:thup:

 

[Shaunmg]

Right - sat down with a few county boys after a great day out on the course to chat about this one over a decent red, there were three official rules guys present.

None had come across this before as a problem but agreed that if there was a requirement to deal with it after much diliberation (and a couple more bottles) a majority decision was forthcoming.

1. I'm spending to much time around these people.
2. After reading the rule and the "Understanding the Words" section of the book It was decided because the word MUST was in the paragraph then you must ensure the card is signed at the end of the round.
3. Got home around 2145 hrs and email from HQ had arrived: -
Dear Silly Old Skier

Thank you for your email and query on the Rules of Golf.

There is no Rule preventing a player from signing a score card in advance of starting the stipulated round. However, the key is that the signature attests to the score therefore, generally score cards are signed following the round, as this is the seal of approval of the score achieved by the player.

Whilst there is no penalty for signing the card in advance, this practice is not recommended ".

So there you have it the rule is there but the rule as some have hinted at, because of the wording don't count. Lets hope for the 2015 edition they leave that one out then.

So at least we have an official ruling and one I obviously can pass on to those that, should the time arise, put in the picture, be it somewhat abstract. Mind you the state of some of the cards I get after a comp by 2015 I suspect all that will be required is a thumb print.

Endex on this one then
I hope that this is of assistance.

Well done, so now we have it clear. I have to say I'm shocked. I also e-mailed R&A, they acknowledged my e-mail but not sent a reply to question yet.

From now on I will always sign my card before the round, as I enter my handicap and tee time, I'll sign it. I have been DQ'd twice for forgetting to sign

 

[Fish]

A player in our August medal on Saturday I see was DQ'd with a 85/20 nett 65 (CSS 72 Par 73) under 6.6b, he would have won the medal & Ray Moore Trophy but still got cut to 18.3. If he got DQ'd from the comps, is the cut still warranted, I suppose it should be and I'd be peeved if I shot a great score and slipped up and didn't, but you never know with some of these rulings?

 

[pbrown7582]

Yeah his score is still counted by the W is withheld. You'd be just as peeved if in the next comp said player wasn't cut the 2.8 shots and pipped you by 1 next time out.

 

[Kellfire]

Happened at my club two years ago to a player who subsequently left the club not long after. I know he was aggrieved.

 

[Fyldewhite]

A player in our August medal on Saturday I see was DQ'd with a 85/20 nett 65 (CSS 72 Par 73) under 6.6b, he would have won the medal & Ray Moore Trophy but still got cut to 18.3. If he got DQ'd from the comps, is the cut still warranted, I suppose it should be and I'd be peeved if I shot a great score and slipped up and didn't, but you never know with some of these rulings?

Score would count for handicapping so long as the DQ was for something administrative and the score itself wasn't subject to breaking rules which may affect it. For example, playing with illegal clubs would mean it is disregarded.....there is a list of what's acceptable and not in the CONGU manual.

Guy at ours put wrong handicap on his card (1 too many) before "winning" our Captains final on Saturday. Shame as he hadn't noticed a 0.3 cut a couple of weeks ago when he shot SSS but CSS had gone up one. Just goes to show how you should always check these things!! He "won" by about 5 shots too :-(

 

[Foxholer]

A player in our August medal on Saturday I see was DQ'd with a 85/20 nett 65 (CSS 72 Par 73) under 6.6b, he would have won the medal & Ray Moore Trophy but still got cut to 18.3. If he got DQ'd from the comps, is the cut still warranted, I suppose it should be and I'd be peeved if I shot a great score and slipped up and didn't, but you never know with some of these rulings?

Yes normally! The competition and handicap maintenance in qualifying comps are separate things.

Appendix P in the Congu Manual about how to deal with DQ situations and whether card is acceptable (with adjustments even) for handicap as is/adjusted or becomes a 'No Return'.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've not DQ'd anyone for doing so, nor been aware of it by anyone else.

As to your pedantry, it doesn't follow at all. If it had said " he must ensure that the marker has signed the score card, and then sign the score card himself" it would - but it doesn't.

I would DQ someone where it was established that the marker had signed the card before the round, unless they signed it again when they completed it.

and just to complete the picture, I wouldn't DQ someone where the marker failed to record the score on a hole before playing the next one under "After each hole the marker should check the score with the competitor and record it. On completion of the round the marker must sign the score card and hand it to the competitor." either.

BiB - because reading this literally - as we should with the rules - it does NOT say that the score for the hole should be recorded before the player tees off on the next hole - just after the hole has been played. No caveat or condition other than before the card is signed at completion of the round

 

[UlyssesSky]

BiB - because reading this literally - as we should with the rules - it does NOT say that the score for the hole should be recorded before the player tees off on the next hole - just after the hole has been played. No caveat or condition other than before the card is signed at completion of the round

Even though you're right you're missing the most important argument (in your favour).... The rule says the marker SHOULD check and record the score after each hole.

Looking at the rules of Golf you find the following:

Understand the Words
The Rule book is written in a very precise and deliberate fashion. You should
be aware of and understand the following differences in word use:
• may = optional
• should = recommendation
• must = instruction (and penalty if not carried out)
• a ball = you may substitute another ball (e.g. Rules 26, 27 and 28)
• the ball = you must not substitute another ball (e.g. Rules 24-2 and 25-1)

In the german version of the rules book there's even an annotation elaborating that in this case 'should' means the marker doesn't have to check/record the score after every hole but is advised to do so to avoid discussion later on.


PS: I wouldn't see signing the scorecard before the round as a reason for DQ, just as kind of stupid since you're basically signing in blank for whatever your marker writes down (not implying bad intent on the marker's side, but mistakes happen...)

 

[duncan mackie]

This thread is nearly 2 years old and the R&A have confirmed the advice given in it.

The new twist isn't related, but let's no go back over the original stuff again!