Should single sex golf clubs be allowed to exist?

[HomerJSimpson]

As a member of a private members club where women have a thriving section, there would be a serious issue if their ladies day (Tuesday) was removed as many of them utilise it for their competitions and if they walked as a result and we lost their income it would close the club without question.

If there are places like Wirral Ladies that operate the same single sex policy, then how can it be discriminatory. You can't say it's so just because the number of female only clubs is far less than the male equivalent. The point remains that should you so wish and subject to the entry criteria which as far as I'm aware any private club can set up as they like (within legal constraints on race, disability etc) you can apply to join them. I don't see discrimination as the issue.

I use to belong to Wimbledon Common which use to be single sex. As a junior and even when I became an adult back in the 80's I never really considered it. As far as I was concerned that was where my mates played golf and where I wanted to play

 

[Pin-seeker]

As a member of a private members club where women have a thriving section, there would be a serious issue if their ladies day (Tuesday) was removed as many of them utilise it for their competitions and if they walked as a result and we lost their income it would close the club without question.

If there are places like Wirral Ladies that operate the same single sex policy, then how can it be discriminatory. You can't say it's so just because the number of female only clubs is far less than the male equivalent. The point remains that should you so wish and subject to the entry criteria which as far as I'm aware any private club can set up as they like (within legal constraints on race, disability etc) you can apply to join them. I don't see discrimination as the issue.

I use to belong to Wimbledon Common which use to be single sex. As a junior and even when I became an adult back in the 80's I never really considered it. As far as I was concerned that was where my mates played golf and where I wanted to play

Totally agree. You don't ear men moaning about women only golf clubs or Gyms. Men are discriminated against just as much as women IMO. We just don't go around looking for it & moaning about it as much.

 

[williamalex1]

A private club has the same standing as your own private house, you can refuse entry to anyone who does not have a legal warrant , with no reason given. You just say your not getting in my house.

 

[Robobum]

Once (if) it was made a completely level playing field for both sexes. Complete equality, equal rights, tee times etc........

Would the LGU become superfluous?
Would red tees become likewise?
How much fun would a woman have playing from the back tees?

I'd guess that it would put a number off playing due to lack of enjoyment.

I liken it to when I got married (bear with me). I love my wife and love spending time together. But there's times I want to spend with blokes and there's time the she wants to spend with other women, without interference if the other sex. That's ok to have that, it doesn't mean our marriage is crumbling. That may have come across like complete tosh, but it did make sense in my head (which is a bit sore from a few too many half shandies )

 

[Adi2Dassler]

My dad was a five day member of Burgess back in the 70's when he worked in Saudi, can recall being there with him one day and my mum walks in to meet us.The old codger running the place nearly had a heart attack and ripped my mum to bits.Thought my auld fella was gonna get arrested.My dad left that day and never went back, I've been invited many times to play there and I refuse and explain why.

I hope one day they the fold and the place is bulldozed.

 

[Robobum]

My dad was a five day member of Burgess back in the 70's when he worked in Saudi, can recall being there with him one day and my mum walks in to meet us.The old codger running the place nearly had a heart attack and ripped my mum to bits.Thought my auld fella was gonna get arrested.My dad left that day and never went back, I've been invited many times to play there and I refuse and explain why.

I hope one day they the fold and the place is bulldozed.

Because of one guy? Bit extreme, unless he was the appointed spokesman for the whole club.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Is it though?

If we do away with single sex clubs and everything becomes equal, as it should be, no ladies day, no restricted or preferred tee times allocated to any gender sector such as ladies, seniors etc, then everyone should be expected to mix and play together.

Medal days then should be open so ladies can book and play at weekends as much as men, but, would they?

As Scott is eluding to, I think, the ladies would chose not to because as much as they want equality, they do not want to mix with men and as such equality goes out of the window. The net result of that is less ladies joining or being members at a club because they feel intimidated by men, not all are low handicapper like your good self Kaz.

So whilst there seems to be some spotlight on some golf clubs which are ss (mens), there are apparently as many for women only also, but there doesn't seem to be the same attention being drawn to them. After-all, there are many clubs in those area's that welcome women so its not because of a forced choice to open such an establishment, its because they want their own gender club!

I am actually surprised that there are not more ladies only clubs, because as I've said earlier, they scream for equality and I have no problem with that but it cannot come with conditions, you either lower the barrier fully or shut it!

I think so. If clubs want to run separate competitions it is perfectly possible to do so while fairly sharing access to the course, which, for me, is the main issue.

Running exclusively mixed competitions is problematic in several ways. I admit that I'm personally broadly in favour and recently joined a club where that was one of the main attractions. However, it's just a fact that women cannot compete against men on a level playing field in golf so we play a shorter course. How many of the men that played our December medal, I wonder, were happy at a woman winning both the scratch and handicap prizes off a course some 1000 yards shorter than they played? It's easy to defend the rationale for a handicap comp, but the scratch is rather trickier. On a practical level, it's awkward, more time-consuming, less sociable and arguably less enjoyable when players in a group are playing from different tees. Anyway, I do think that's a thread in its own right rather than muddying the water of the single sex clubs debate.

You do brush on a bigger problem for women's golf - a lack of participation. That's also another thread or series of threads in its own right as the reasons for it are many and varied. One reason (and only one reason) is the perception that golf is run by and for sexist old men; men-only clubs perpetuate that myth. I deliberately say men-only in this context since it's not generally common knowledge amongst non-golfers that women-only clubs also exist. That's because the men-only clubs are higher profile, they tend to own courses (most of the ladies clubs don't), and host prestigious events.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Once (if) it was made a completely level playing field for both sexes. Complete equality, equal rights, tee times etc........

Would the LGU become superfluous?
Would red tees become likewise?
How much fun would a woman have playing from the back tees?

I'd guess that it would put a number off playing due to lack of enjoyment.

OK, we're way off piste now and the notion of using the same tees is ridiculous but since this one keeps coming up here's an alternative view. The average female club golfer simply couldn't play off the back tees at many courses (could at my course, incidentally - easily), couldn't clear hazards, reach fairways etc etc on many holes. So if these clubs decided all players would use the same tees in comps, it couldn't be the back ones could it? The real question is how much fun are you lot going to have playing off the reds?

 

[Pin-seeker]

I'd be surprised if most none golfers (men or women) actually know/or even care that men & women only courses exist.

 

[Robobum]

OK, we're way off piste now and the notion of using the same tees is ridiculous but since this one keeps coming up here's an alternative view. The average female club golfer simply couldn't play off the back tees at many courses (could at my course, incidentally - easily), couldn't clear hazards, reach fairways etc etc on many holes. So if these clubs decided all players would use the same tees in comps, it couldn't be the back ones could it? The real question is how much fun are you lot going to have playing off the reds?

Plenty, for a short while. Drive/ chip would become boring after a while.

I don't think it is off piste. Equality*


*But only on certain things.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Because excluding people from doing something they want to do/join/experience purely on the basis of their gender is generally called discrimination?

My view is that reasonable equivalent alternatives are available and therefore the individual who cannot join a s/s club is suffering no hurt or loss in respect of what would be expected for the average persons life choices. And I would expect any definition of illegal or undesirable discrimination would include these as results or by-products of any such discrimination.

So - does the WI membership discriminate on grounds of sex? Yes. Does it matter? No. Why? Because there are alternatives that satisfy the equivalent life choice needs of blokes, and in addition blokes can take part in any/most WI organised event.

 

[CMAC]

I'd be surprised if most none golfers (men or women) actually know/or even care that men & women only courses exist.

agreed!

My last club had no women, not one! my club, and I believe the other 2 clubs in the 'resort' didnt have any women members. Courses too tough? closed shop?(unlikely) however many women played as guests regularly.

 

[Ethan]

At my club, people of either (or neither) gender can play anytime. Except men can't play during the ladies day reserved times.

At my local gym, all areas (apart from changing rooms) are open to either (or neither) gender, except the "pink room" which is for women only. Women are in the majority of the the membership, so this is unjustifiable under the law as I understand it.

This sort of gender bias is just wrong.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Plenty, for a short while. Drive/ chip would become boring after a while.

I don't think it is off piste. Equality*


*But only on certain things.

Don't play silly buggers. If you want "equality" in terms of the tees used you can have it.... I'm just challenging the common presumption that "same tees" means "white tees". It ain't necessarily so.

 

[Robobum]

Don't play silly buggers. If you want "equality" in terms of the tees used you can have it.... I'm just challenging the common presumption that "same tees" means "white tees". It ain't necessarily so.

Call them whatever colour you like, but surely a course should be played as it was designed and from its full length?

I'm not arguing that it is reasonable for us all to play from those tees as it plainly isn't.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Seems that women only like to bring up sexism when it suits.

 

[BoadieBroadus]

I can't say that having women as members really impacts my membership in any way, other than one or two comps there is no provision for mixed comps and no one is clamouring for more. So like many I'm fairly ambivalent to female membership, if it was men only I'd still happily be a member, though I admit that would change if I were to have a daughter who expressed a strong interest in playing.

I don't really see golf as a mixed sport so I don't see the huge need to have mixed memberships. Just because both men and women can play, doesn't mean they have to or should play together.

There must be thousands of football, rugby, cricket clubs etc which are exclusively male simply due to the nature of the sports, I don't see why golf clubs should be forced to be mixed if they don't want to run a female section.

 

[garyinderry]

Seems that women only like to bring up sexism when it suits.

after the washing, ironing and kids are in bed is usually a good time to approach it I find ! :thup:










only joking, I don't have kids

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Seems that women only like to bring up sexism when it suits.

 

[Papas1982]

View attachment 8460

I'd say it's not too far from the truth, just people are too PC to admit it.