Should 3/4 difference exist?

CMAC

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Read an interesting article/debate on this via an online Golf mag (not posting link as possible competitor to GM).

Seems many low /hcappers feel hard done by and some dont even enter these matchplay comps as they are giving away too many shots! However, if I'm off 5 and play someone off 12 then the difference in shots is just plain and common sense imo.

Should this change also transpose into the 4BBB matches as well? keeps parity and effectively its all the same...isn't it?
 

FairwayDodger

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Read an interesting article/debate on this via an online Golf mag (not posting link as possible competitor to GM).

Seems many low /hcappers feel hard done by and some dont even enter these matchplay comps as they are giving away too many shots! However, if I'm off 5 and play someone off 12 then the difference in shots is just plain and common sense imo.

Should this change also transpose into the 4BBB matches as well? keeps parity and effectively its all the same...isn't it?

Do you feel the same playing someone off 27?
 

jp5

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Simple answer for the 5 handicapper that feels hard done by giving shots away is just to enter scratch events! Level playing field then - best on the day wins
 

adam6177

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Surely if a persons handicap is a fair representation of their play then I don't see an issue.... a 27 handicapper is likely to be around the 100 mark and a low handicapper should be under 80.
 

Ethan

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3/4 applies to matchplay, and the reason is not that handicaps are inaccurate with an inherent advantage to lower handicappers, but that you are playing a format in which winning a hole by 2 or 3 shots has the same effect as winning by 1, so the intention is not to balance the number of shots difference between the players, but the number of holes on which their scores will differ. 3/4 is an attempt to do that, but is necessarily imperfect as different players use their handicap strokes differently.
 

Hobbit

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CONGU did an in-depth study and ran a pilot scheme before introducing the current allowances. I'm happy with giving full difference in singles but prefer 3/4 in a 4ball matchplay. The rationale behind 3/4 in 4ball is pretty simple; a higher handicapper will throw in the odd double and treble bogey, which in a strokeplay comp where handicap is calculated from will balance out over a round with a run of pars. But a double/treble bogey in matchplay may still only mean going 1 down - then have a run of pars and the low handicapper has to shoot a course record to stand a chance.

As for the debate about what people play off in some open matchplay comps... MikeH has suggested we shy away from suggesting some players 'manipulate' the system.
 

harpo_72

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Does it really matter? I mean according to several people on here the handicap is supposed to be the best they will play to not a measure of average ability. Thus giving them all their stroke difference should be harmless, apparently. The truth of the matter is match play is a different animal much like stableford in that high scores on one hole can be forgotten, unlike medal play where you just accumulate. So in a way the presumption that they need all the strokes is incorrect, 3/4s will produce a fair and tight game. As for better ball, seriously if you have two pairs that are single handicap, difference is meaningless you will get a good match off scratch.

So would I play match play against a high handicapper giving them full stroke difference ... No I would not, I would rather just concentrate on where my ball went and not listen to the moaning and groaning about how unlucky they are. But that is my choice and my opinion.
 

the smiling assassin

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the issue with full allowance in singles matchplay isn't really when small handicap differences are in play, it's when there is a large difference. for me the issue is that the handicap system is based on stableford scoring. in match play a nett double bogey is completely and utterly irrelevant as nett birdies, pars and bogeys are the currency to which holes are decided. matchplay handicaps for me should be based on medal play adjusting anything worse than a bogey to a bogey, rather than worse than a double down to a double. that way, full allowance would be fair(er).
 

Birchy

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Looking at the typical handicaps of the people who have won properly run matchplay events that I have seen id say full difference is fine.

The trouble with some lower handicap golfers that I have seen is they think they should beat everyone with a high handicap all the time. The handicap system is to make it a level(ish) playing field so you are going to lose to worse players some times. They always seem to remember that one guy off 20 or whatever who beat them :D
 

Stuey01

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Looking at the typical handicaps of the people who have won properly run matchplay events that I have seen id say full difference is fine.

The trouble with some lower handicap golfers that I have seen is they think they should beat everyone with a high handicap all the time. The handicap system is to make it a level(ish) playing field so you are going to lose to worse players some times. They always seem to remember that one guy off 20 or whatever who beat them :D

This this and this again. + a billion.
 

Robobum

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I play golf as a recreation, it doesn't matter if I get beat. I'll be trying to play the best golf I possibly can, if that is good enough great, if not then so be it. What have I lost? £5??

Prefer full difference so I don't have to get my shoes and socks off to calculate 3/4!! ;)
 

upsidedown

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I play golf as a recreation, it doesn't matter if I get beat. I'll be trying to play the best golf I possibly can, if that is good enough great, if not then so be it. What have I lost? £5??

Yup that's pretty much my take o the game too, unless I'm playing my one brother then it's win at all costs ;)
 

Pistol Peter

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being a rather high handicap golfer myself playing of 12, I don't have a problem playing of 3/4 handicap as I feel it will help improve my game if I play with some lower than me. I enjoy the game to much to let things bother me, I do think however that the mens max handicap needs to be lowered because the max 28 is just way to much even 20 seems to high so I can see why single figure cat1 golfer get a bit annoyed.
 

CMAC

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Do you feel the same playing someone off 27?

yes of course:confused:

I've played a few off 23 last year and I lost both:rolleyes: purely down to me not even getting close to cat1 figs, I mean losing some holes to a double bogie I don't deserve to win and would be embarrassed if I did....

because you are a low h/capper would you feel you deserve to have what are effectively courtesy shots? theres a reason someones off 27, yes they will get a few pars and even a birdie but 18 holes are a marathon not a sprint
 

Fish

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being a rather high handicap golfer myself playing of 12, I don't have a problem playing of 3/4 handicap as I feel it will help improve my game if I play with some lower than me. I enjoy the game to much to let things bother me, I do think however that the mens max handicap needs to be lowered because the max 28 is just way to much even 20 seems to high so I can see why single figure cat1 golfer get a bit annoyed.

I disagree, a 20 handicapper has to play for his life off 3/4 which would be 15 whereas if he was against a cat1 player, they'd only lose 1 shot and they are far more consistent, thus being cat1 anyway. Full difference is right and as Birchy says, its a leveller, the low single handicappers always come through in the end anyway, they just don't like losing to a high handicapper early doors, not because they've (high handicapper) played well, but because the low handicapper has played cr@p.
 

CMAC

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being a rather high handicap golfer myself playing of 12, I don't have a problem playing of 3/4 handicap as I feel it will help improve my game if I play with some lower than me. I enjoy the game to much to let things bother me, I do think however that the mens max handicap needs to be lowered because the max 28 is just way to much even 20 seems to high so I can see why single figure cat1 golfer get a bit annoyed.

thats a good point, maybe the cat1's who arent happy would feel better if the max allowance was 18?
 

Fish

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yes of course:confused:

I've played a few off 23 last year and I lost both:rolleyes: purely down to me not even getting close to cat1 figs, I mean losing some holes to a double bogie I don't deserve to win and would be embarrassed if I did....

because you are a low h/capper would you feel you deserve to have what are effectively courtesy shots? theres a reason someones off 27, yes they will get a few pars and even a birdie but 18 holes are a marathon not a sprint

Excellent attitude :thup:
 

Pistol Peter

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I disagree, a 20 handicapper has to play for his life off 3/4 which would be 15 whereas if he was against a cat1 player, they'd only lose 1 shot and they are far more consistent, thus being cat1 anyway. Full difference is right and as Birchy says, its a leveller, the low single handicappers always come through in the end anyway, they just don't like losing to a high handicapper early doors, not because they've (high handicapper) played well, but because the low handicapper has played cr@p.

I hear what your saying but surley the cat 1 golfer should be annoyed getting beat from someone playing off 18 or higher, I mean he has put the effort in to get where he has got to which is more than can be said for the guy playing of 18+

I have played a few ties over the years against cat 1 golfers and have lost more than I have won but they have been good matches but I dread to think how these guys handle playing guys where they are giving away at least 15 or more shots one guy told me it does not bother him because if they are playing of 20+ then they are playing off that for a reason. I know I would not like playing some one where I was giving away 9 shots never mind 15. So for this reason I am happy playing to 3/4
 
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