Should 3/4 difference exist?

[HawkeyeMS]

Not a fan of matchplay so it doesn't really bother me what they use in singles as I rarely play it.

3/4 is definately fair in 4BBB, I've lost count of the number of times I've played this format against pair who have a 20 something handicap who plays the "round of his life" against us - maybe I'm just unlucky?

 

[pbrown7582]

I think the system in current use full h/cap in singles and 3/4 4bbb works quite well.
As long as you know the rules when you enter it doesn't really matter? If your not happy about full or 3/4 difference don't enter.

 

[woody69]

Why? So everyone else can have all the fun entering all types of events, but cat 1 should content themselves with scratch only, where scratch get no shots, but so do 5 h/cappers. If your off 5 you've little chance of winning anything then. Ye gods! I'm not cat 1, BTW.

You have misunderstood what I was saying. I was saying those players that felt the need to complain they have lost to a high handicap player because they had full allocation should stick to playing in scratch comps. I'm not saying all of cat 1 players should content themselves with scratch only.

 

[fundy]

been reading this thread with interest as played my first 4bbb comp last weekend. played against two 4 handicappers, me off 18 and my partner off 15 so i got 11 shots and partner got 8. we ended up edging a close game 2&1 by winning 16 & 17. they were +3 through 17 with us +7.

not having played format before wasn't sure whether those figures meant they played poorly or we played well ?

2 4 cappers playing better ball would expect to be under par so Id say they didnt play as well as they wouldve hoped, sounds like you and your partner gelled well and put together a decent score to win

 

[FairwayDodger]

Read an interesting article/debate on this via an online Golf mag (not posting link as possible competitor to GM).

Seems many low /hcappers feel hard done by and some dont even enter these matchplay comps as they are giving away too many shots! However, if I'm off 5 and play someone off 12 then the difference in shots is just plain and common sense imo.

Should this change also transpose into the 4BBB matches as well? keeps parity and effectively its all the same...isn't it?

For me, this isn't a full vs 3/4 handicap issue. In terms of artificially creating an even contest full difference seems probably about right.

The reason I don't enjoy playing matchplay against very high handicappers is not any sort of bitterness about the number of shots I'm giving or that it impacts my divine right to beat such players. When I play someone with a handicap in the thirties I am giving so many shots that how well I play is almost irrelevant. The only way I can win that match is if my opponent plays very badly (note, someone at that level can beat their handicap but still play very badly in the sense that I mean). So, if I take it seriously and play competitively I end up having to hope they muck shots up, that they put it in a bunker and can't get out etc.

I don't enjoy playing with that mindset. One match I played it was clear that putting was my opponent's Achilles heel so I (competitively) decided not to give her anything and sure enough she got the jitters, had a terrible time and missed some that should have been absolute stick on gimmees... including one that was less than a foot from the hole. I won but I felt like a complete cow.

The alternative is to treat it as a friendly match and not get competitive but then, what's the point of being in the comp? I can and do play bounce games with people at that level and enjoy it perfectly well.

I don't intend to play my club's knockout next year. This isn't the only reason but it is one of them.

 

[duncan mackie]

The only way I can win that match is if my opponent plays very badly........I don't enjoy playing with that mindset.

there's only one answer to that!

playing mainly seniors BB matches (ie I play a lot of those and therefore relatively few others) I find I am normally giving someone 14 shots and went through a phase of thinking along the lines that I should aim to hold the shot holes and look to win the (few) non-shot holes. This was a very silly mistake, and fortunately only short lived!

if you are single figures you can win holes, you just have to get on and do it. sure, your eagle can be matched by someone making a gross par with 2 shots but that's all part of the game.

as for feeling as complete cow for not protecting an opponent from the weakness that supports their handicap......I think you have things the wrong way round

 

[Imurg]

I see where FD's coming from though.
If I'm going to win a match I'd much rather I won by playing well rather than winning because the oppo played the worst golf ever.
OK, a win's a win but I never like to see anyone play poorly (with the possible exception of Fragger)....

I've never been a great lover of Matchplay and that love diminished further some years ago, giving away 18 shots to a "rank" 28'er who stiffed a tee shot on a par 3 for a gimme birdie - with a shot, leaving me a hole-in-one for the half - and he did it TWICE!!!!

 

[FairwayDodger]

I've never been a great lover of Matchplay and that love diminished further some years ago, giving away 18 shots to a "rank" 28'er who stiffed a tee shot on a par 3 for a gimme birdie - with a shot, leaving me a hole-in-one for the half - and he did it TWICE!!!!

Stroke index 3 on my course is a downhill par three. I lost it once to a player who hit a duffed drive (driver) that ran down onto the green. She holed the putt for a net 0.

 

[Birchy]

Matchplay isn't about playing well though really is it? The aim is to be one better than your oppo on as many holes as possible.

For example if your opponent is 3 off the tee and you are in middle of fairway for one would you take on the 180 carry to the green? Probably not to give you the best chance of winning the hole. Would you go for in singles format? Probably yes.

You've just got to be ruthless, if they are dodgy on short putts make them putt every single one. The old "I cant ee you missing this" always gets em going too

 

[NWJocko]

Matchplay isn't about playing well though really is it? The aim is to be one better than your oppo on as many holes as possible.

For example if your opponent is 3 off the tee and you are in middle of fairway for one would you take on the 180 carry to the green? Probably not to give you the best chance of winning the hole. Would you go for in singles format? Probably yes.

You've just got to be ruthless, if they are dodgy on short putts make them putt every single one. The old "I cant ee you missing this" always gets em going too

Only reason I won my club matchplay is year is because of gimmes!!!

They had obviously never seen me putt before :whoo:

 

[Birchy]

Only reason I won my club matchplay is year is because of gimmes!!!

They had obviously never seen me putt before :whoo:

Cant beat opponents who feel like they have to give gimmes. Its a different game when your trying to hole a short one under pressure. If theres any slight smell of a miss in my opponent I get them putting

You just "putt" yourself down too much mate :whoo:

 

[daymond]

I have played a lot of seniors 4BBB. all off 3/4. Sometimes I'm the one giving shots, sometimes I'm getting shots. On balance over the years it evens out and most matches are close.
In my experience it is not the 10 handicapper to look out for it is the 20 ish one who used to play off 7/8/9. You can tell within two holes that he still has the game but the ravages of age have taken their toll. If the bad knee, bad back etc. are not too bad that day he is a hard man to beat!
I find it hard to understand why a 4/5 handicapper would team up with partner equally as low. He needs to look for a 15 handicap partner.
Agree with thhe Poster who suggested 28 should be 24 as in 'the good old days'. As for the ladies handicapping, well....

 

[williamalex1]

I have played a lot of seniors 4BBB. all off 3/4. Sometimes I'm the one giving shots, sometimes I'm getting shots. On balance over the years it evens out and most matches are close.
In my experience it is not the 10 handicapper to look out for it is the 20 ish one who used to play off 7/8/9. You can tell within two holes that he still has the game but the ravages of age have taken their toll. If the bad knee, bad back etc. are not too bad that day he is a hard man to beat!
I find it hard to understand why a 4/5 handicapper would team up with partner equally as low. He needs to look for a 15 handicap partner.
Agree with thhe Poster who suggested 28 should be 24 as in 'the good old days'. As for the ladies handicapping, well....

Much the same as I was going to post, full difference in single 3/4 4bbb , and max h/c should be 24. My first club was 18 max h/c .BTW, less than 5% of golfers are cat 1. They seem to forget that they didn't start as a cat 1. The majority rule

 

[TheJezster]

When we play club matches we try to pitch low and high handicaps together to get them dovetailing nicely. Also, our ex captain who pretty much looks after the teams for these things, tries to put people together who are not close, so there is a little edge between them! Where he can, not always. I like to have a laugh so like to play with like minded people, thats when I seem to play my best. That said tho, if its a club match and i have to play with someone i dont know that well, thats fine too.

This format seems to work out ok for us, we tend to do quite well in our club matches. Home and away.

 

[harpo_72]

Okay full handicap difference it is, then shake their hand on the first tee. Say "my you have a strong grip" or "that's a bit of a limp handshake for a man" . Then just watch them unfold, don't even talk to them only offer to look for the ball if its in a hideous position. Don't obviously watch where their ball goes, and when they say did you see it say no sorry. Never give any thing that is more than 2" away from the hole. If they are in the bunker, walk past look and shake your head....Or just be so jolly talk to them about everything and anything, tell a few jokes (usually disgusting ones), talk about pooh ...
Walk off 4 and 3 .. Either way its do a head job on them and help them loosen the wheels so they come off...
And that is matchplay. Horrid I know and frankly just a few holes to wind someone up.

 

[3PuttCharlie]

I'd like to see the maximum HC be reduced to 18 for matchplay, one shot a hole is enough IMO

I'd also like to change where the strokes are given

for instance a 6 hc plays against an 18 hc - 12 strokes to be given

I'd like them to be given on stroke index 7-18 because the 6 HC should be making par on these and the 18 would normally get a shot on these holes - so making it a fairer playing field

they'd normally both get shots in strokeplay on stroke index 1-6, so the fact that neither would it would still be a level playing field

although I suspect mentally the 6hc would cope better with SI 1-6 than the 18hc

this works for all HC's as long as the maximum was 18

I know this may seem unfair or a bit harsh on 28 HC, but it would be no different than a 10 hc entering a scratch event, if you want to play in it then you can.

 

[Pants]

I'd also like to change where the strokes are given

for instance a 6 hc plays against an 18 hc - 12 strokes to be given

I'd like them to be given on stroke index 7-18 because the 6 HC should be making par on these and the 18 would normally get a shot on these holes - so making it a fairer playing field

they'd normally both get shots in strokeplay on stroke index 1-6, so the fact that neither would it would still be a level playing field

Our society uses a simpler version of this in the annual KO. It's matchplay with Stableford scoring to decide the outcome of each hole. In your example, the 6 h/c player would get shots as normal on indexes 1 -6 and the 18 h/c a shot on every hole. The player with the highest score on a hole wins the hole, equal points and the hole is halved, etc.

Works quite well and is another "interesting" format.

Before you ask, I haven't really noticed whether it favours higher/lower h/c.

 

[sev112]

I've given up worrying about it

Personally I think low handicaps play to their handicap more often, but high handicaps beat their handicaps by a lot more on the occasions that they beat their handicap (ie when high handicap golfers beat their handicap they do it by 6 7 8 shots, whereas the single guys do it by 1 2 3 shots,). There being more high handicappers than lower, the higher handicappers (but not the same one) tend to prevail in stableford comps.
Hence the lower handicappers perception that they are having it tough.

 

[Birchy]

Looking at the list of winners on the singles matchplay thread maybe it should be 1.5 times the difference?

 

[garyinderry]

you have to wonder how many high handicapers enter these type of comps. many would be scared off at the thought of being drawn with the club champion.

you would imagine most of the low men would enter as they play most days anyway.


just a thought!




at my old place, there used to be a stableford comp to qualify for the match play singles. I failed to qualify both times I entered.